Israel

by **HitRed** on Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:11 pm

God isn't neutral.

by **Dukasaur** on Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:41 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:
jimboston wrote:I don’t have a “black and white” worldview in any traditional sense as you suggest.

Ah yes, that famous jimbean sense of nuance which concluded every time the Israeli government bombs a Gazan school it's Hamas' fault.

It doesn't take any special worldview to conclude that, when criminal organizations surround themselves with innocent civilians, there will be unfortunate casualties when the cops come knocking.

by **jimboston** on Mon Nov 13, 2023 6:19 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:
jimboston wrote:I don’t have a “black and white” worldview in any traditional sense as you suggest.

Ah yes, that famous jimbean sense of nuance which concluded every time the Israeli government bombs a Gazan school it's Hamas' fault.

No. Only when Hamas is using said school to store munitions, or from which to launch attacks.

Just because you hate Jews doesn’t mean Israel is lying.

by **bigtoughralf** on Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:11 pm

Dukasaur wrote:It doesn't take any special worldview to conclude that, when criminal organizations surround themselves with innocent civilians, there will be unfortunate casualties when the cops come knocking.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases ... t-humanity

But idk I live in a country where the police kill 2-3 people a year so what do I know about state security overreactions.

jimboston wrote:Just because you hate Jews

Yawn.

by **Votanic** on Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:17 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:
jimboston wrote:I don’t have a “black and white” worldview in any traditional sense as you suggest.

Ah yes, that famous jimbean sense of nuance which concluded every time the Israeli government bombs a Gazan school it's Hamas' fault.

It doesn't take any special worldview to conclude that, when criminal organizations surround themselves with innocent civilians, there will be unfortunate casualties when the cops come knocking.

The organizations you don't like are criminal and the civilians are innocent. Civilians and victims are always innocent... The cops must be from the non-criminal organizations that you do like. The casualties are unfortunate, though when one is at war, casualties are often intended. I mean you want the bullets and bombs to hit their targets, right?

It's all so black and white... or perhaps the negative image (white and black), if one is on the other side.

by **jusplay4fun** on Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:24 pm

Votanic wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:
jimboston wrote:I don’t have a “black and white” worldview in any traditional sense as you suggest.

Ah yes, that famous jimbean sense of nuance which concluded every time the Israeli government bombs a Gazan school it's Hamas' fault.

It doesn't take any special worldview to conclude that, when criminal organizations surround themselves with innocent civilians, there will be unfortunate casualties when the cops come knocking.

The organizations you don't like are criminal and the civilians are innocent. Civilians and victims are always innocent... The cops must be from the non-criminal organizations that you do like. The casualties are unfortunate, though when one is at war, casualties are often intended. I mean you want the bullets and bombs to hit their targets, right?

It's all so black and white... or perhaps the negative image (white and black), if one is on the other side.

Hamas has basically only Four "Weapons"

1) a few crudely made rockets;
2) Surprise attacks;
3) Lots of people, mostly poor and young, and living in Gaza; and
4) Using many (or even most) of those people as human hamas shields so that when IDF hits the militants that many civilians are, unfortunately, also killed and wounded.

Again, I have seen no one in this thread refute THIS argument (#4, especially). The recent posts by ralph seem rather impotent and bland in this thread.

by **Votanic** on Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:38 pm

Why are the people of Gaza poor?!? Why are they all crowded into a small area like Gaza?!?

Their poverty must be why their rockets are so few and crudely made. Somebody needs to fund them so they can afford better weapons.

May be some rich benefactor can help the U.S.? Iran?, Russia?, China?... Israel has lots of money, maybe they can pay... one way or another?I!.

Thanks Jus', your insightful post really opened my eyes... and to think, you did all that with your own peepers tightly shut.

by **jusplay4fun** on Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:59 pm

Votanic wrote:Why are the people of Gaza poor?!? Why are they all crowded into a small area like Gaza?!?

Their poverty must be why their rockets are so few and crudely made. Somebody needs to fund them so they can afford better weapons.

May be some rich benefactor can help the U.S.? Iran?, Russia?, China?... Israel has lots of money, maybe they can pay... one way or another?I!.

Thanks Jus', your insightful post really opened my eyes... and to think, you did all that with your own peepers tightly shut.

Your sarcasm is silly, just as are these comments. Get SERIOUS.

The death of many, on both sides, deserve better.

by **jimboston** on Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:46 pm

Votanic wrote:Why are the people of Gaza poor?!? Why are they all crowded into a small area like Gaza?!?

Their poverty must be why their rockets are so few and crudely made. Somebody needs to fund them so they can afford better weapons.

May be some rich benefactor can help the U.S.? Iran?, Russia?, China?... Israel has lots of money, maybe they can pay... one way or another?I!.

Thanks Jus', your insightful post really opened my eyes... and to think, you did all that with your own peepers tightly shut.

They are poor because…

*They elected Hamas to act as their leadership… assuming the election was fair.
*Then Hamas decided to focus all its’ effort on..
a) brainwashing Gaza’s Palestinians to hate Israel/Jews.
b) build munitions
c) train terrorists
d) dig-up and repurpose infrastructure to use for weapon manufacturing

… Hamas put zero effort into
a) developing / improving infrastructure
b) creating a civil/legal structure to encourage outside investment
c) working to find a peaceful way to coexist with Israel
d) educate their population to enable them to develop practical skills that would reduce poverty.

The “West” both directly and via the UN have provided billions in Aid to Gaza in the last decade…

The international community has sent billions of dollars in aid to the Gaza Strip to provide relief to the more than 2 million Palestinians living there. From 2014 to 2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i=89978449

Vast quantities of this aid has never actually reached the Palestinian people of Gaza…instead it has been funneled away by Hamas to fund themselves and their terrorist activists.

THIS AID MADE THE ATTROCITIES OF OCTOBER 7TH POSSIBLE.

If the leadership of Gaza had used this aid to develop their infrastructure and educate their people; and if they had worked to moderate their views and negotiated with Israel… then the people of Gaza would be prosperous today.

Instead the people are poor and are dying.

BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS OF THEIR LEADERSHIP IN HAMAS.

How about Hamas and the people. of Gaza take some ownership of their actions for the past decade plus?

by **Votanic** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:00 pm

jimboston wrote:How about Hamas and the people. of Gaza take some ownership of their actions for the past decade plus?

Basically what I've been saying, Jim. Let me see if I can get it through to them...

Yo! Gazans listen up and make this to sink in! You poor dusty ragheads have lost every war against Isreal and the West! That's why you live in a filthy, cramped, shithole ghetto like Gaza!
All the other land you once had is now called Israel because they took it 'Fair and Square'*. Watchya gonna do about it?? Suck it up, losers!!! Ha, you don't even have any nukes. Pathetic.

And furthermore, you don't even have the decency to be grateful for the handouts you too-generously get. Obviously we are going to have to enact some kind of welfare reform!

*As those in POWER define it to be.

(I can only hope they will listen this time, Jim.)

by **bigtoughralf** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:24 pm

Israeli troops today raided a Gazan hospital, following a sustained ground assault on the hospital compound:

http://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2023 ... za-israel/

Hillary Clinton declares that anyone to avoid being labelled a war criminal should cease bombing hospitals:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EndlessWar/s/d1matta7rI

jimboston blames the hospital assault on Hamas:

[Incoming]

by **Lonous** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:21 pm

Turkish President Erdogan speaking today, 15 Nov 2023.

"Hey Israel, you have a nuclear bomb and you are threatening with this. We know this. Your end is nigh, anyway, whether you have nuclear weapons or not. You're on your way out."
https://twitter.com/upholdreality/statu ... 8301958607

*Cliff notes for the rooks:
Turkey is a NATO member and has the 2nd largest standing military in Nato, behind the U.S.
They also have been operationally active the last 20 years, fulfilling a number of missions with a handful of them still ongoing.
All that is to say, they are not noobs. Their current military is seasoned and experienced.

Do I think Turkey will launch all out war on Israel? No.
However there was a pro-Palestinian protest in Ankara which drew a million+ people.
At the very least Erdogan will throw some form of red meat to his people. The amount will depend on how much they demand.

by **saxitoxin** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:47 pm

FACT: Israel doesn't have a single statue of the man who killed Hitler.

by **jusplay4fun** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:11 pm

saxitoxin wrote:FACT: Israel doesn't have a single statue of the man who killed Hitler.

A Hitler statue? Since he committed suicide? In Israel??? Must be an attempt a bad humor. :-(

by **bigtoughralf** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:41 pm

I was legit trying to remember who killed Hitler and wondering why I didn't know.

In my mind it was the Soviet soldier from that photo raising a flag over some German government building.

by **Lonous** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:49 pm

It was an Argentinian prostitute with syphilis, in 1972.

by **Votanic** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:05 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:FACT: Israel doesn't have a single statue of the man who killed Hitler.

A Hitler statue? Since he committed suicide? In Israel??? Must be an attempt a bad humor.

He was probably referring to whomever killed Adolf's reputation... Cancel Culture strikes again...

by **mookiemcgee** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:23 pm

HitRed wrote:God isn't neutral.

Whose God isn't neutral?

by **Votanic** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:58 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
HitRed wrote:God isn't neutral.

Whose God isn't neutral?

Vishnu, for one. That guy is as bright blue as an artificial raspberry Slurpee.

by **saxitoxin** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:47 pm

Progressive pro-peace protestors have just stormed the Biden regime's lair. Police were unable to hold back a large crowd who breached the Democratic National Committee moments ago, liberating the building.

Police said evacuated the area around the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee in Washington, D.C., after making arrests at a chaotic pro-Palestinian rally Wednesday night. Capitol Police said in a separate notice to reporters that they had restricted entry and exit to the nearby House office buildings.

Numerous lawmakers were in the DNC headquarters when the protest erupted, including a member of House Democratic leadership, a source familiar with the matter told NBC News. The source did not name which high-ranking Democrat was in the building or for how long.

Capitol Police said that all lawmakers were moved from the area for their safety.

IfNotNow, a group that describes itself as “American Jews organizing our community to end U.S. support for Israel’s apartheid system,” said it was at the protest, and accused officers of being violent toward demonstrators.

Rep. Sean Casten, D-Ill., posted on X that he was “rescued” from the DNC building by “armed officers” who “did not know the protestors’ intent; they knew only that Members of Congress were inside, could not leave and that protestors would not let police through.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... rcna125459

by **jonesthecurl** on Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:51 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
HitRed wrote:God isn't neutral.

Whose God isn't neutral?

Horvendile is.

by **Votanic** on Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:41 am

jonesthecurl wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:
HitRed wrote:God isn't neutral.

Whose God isn't neutral?

Horvendile is.

Wait... who?
This guy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurvandill
jones, you definitely get the obscure reference award for today.

Horvendile/Aurvandill is a Germanic/Norse mythological figure of some sort...but is he a god?

Also what do you mean by him being neutral... or by him being not neutral?

by **HitRed** on Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:40 am

October 7, 2023 8:52 A.M.

They [Israel] need to look to me and I will make their enemies my footstool. - God

by **jimboston** on Thu Nov 16, 2023 8:41 am

Votanic wrote:
jimboston wrote:How about Hamas and the people. of Gaza take some ownership of their actions for the past decade plus?

Basically what I've been saying, Jim. Let me see if I can get it through to them...

Yo! Gazans listen up and make this to sink in! You poor dusty ragheads have lost every war against Isreal and the West! That's why you live in a filthy, cramped, shithole ghetto like Gaza!
All the other land you once had is now called Israel because they took it 'Fair and Square'*. Watchya gonna do about it?? Suck it up, losers!!! Ha, you don't even have any nukes. Pathetic.

And furthermore, you don't even have the decency to be grateful for the handouts you too-generously get. Obviously we are going to have to enact some kind of welfare reform!

*As those in POWER define it to be.

(I can only hope they will listen this time, Jim.)

This is certainly the picture that Palestinians (and Muslim’s in general) paint for their children to perpetuate the hate.

It’s obviously a bit more complicated than that.

Yes the history of this region did not start on October 7th.
Neither did it start in the 1930’s.

You can always look backwards and find so prior “cause”.

I deal in reality and in the world as it exists today.
In this world what happened last month may or may not be relevant… but what happened 75 years ago is definitely NOT.

In your world view all US Citizens of European descent are interlopers and should immediately give back this land to Natives.

You live in a Fantasy World that doesn’t exist.

OK… so you are telling me what Israel should NOT be doing.
i.e. they should not be trying to aggressively take out Hamas.

What would you have them do instead?

Hamas has stated their goal is to wipe the state of Israel out of existence. They have proved they are willing to take actions (i.e. killing 1200+ civilians in an unannounced attack) to make this goal a reality. Do you believe Hamas and Israel can come to a negotiated settlement? Israel has two options…
1) Destroy Hamas
2) Evacuate all Jews from Israel

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