Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

by **fumandomuerte** on Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:48 am

Game 7092102 I can see yellow's troops on Neal, fog is on and no, I don't have helicopter B...

by **ViperOverLord** on Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:16 am

angola wrote:AA resets now?

That is ridiculous.

This map might as well be the Hive, because games will go on forever on it.

Yea I just saw that too. That is stupid. I'm sure it was said somewhere, but I don't see the points to these changes. So far it's just ruined the map for me.

by **ViperOverLord** on Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:19 am

Perhaps my reactions have been too knee jerk because I didn't have problems before. I'll keep playing it and see what I think.

by **Theoharis** on Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:17 pm

I saw in Game 6924210 that Neal can be attacked by Lagerraum A. I tried it by curiosity, it works. You should fix that...

by **cairnswk** on Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:18 pm

^^^
How that happened, I'll never know.
http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/das_schloss_090610.xml
Fixed and sent for upload.

by **** *** on Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:10 pm

Theoharis wrote:I saw in Game 6924210 that Neal can be attacked by Lagerraum A. I tried it by curiosity, it works. You should fix that...

Me too, i can see neal in one game(fog of war), and had mine taken out in two others

by **killbill2** on Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:09 pm

Not sure if this is right but 7116713 I have five start positions. Has that changed or is there a bug?

by **cairnswk** on Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:05 pm

killbill2 wrote:Not sure if this is right but 7116713 I have five start positions. Has that changed or is there a bug?

Well it doesn't sound right, but then you're playing fog so i can't see a damn thing about whose playing where.

by **tokle** on Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:42 am

Game 7109229
I've had that happen as well.

by **cairnswk** on Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:21 pm

tokle wrote:Game 7109229
I've had that happen as well.

OK, this is where the difference lies.
In the very first version of this map there were 24 start postiions coded as:

<positions>
<position> 
<territory>Philby</territory>
<territory>K1</territory>
<territory>Obl. Hans</territory>
</position>
<position> 
<territory>Jones</territory>
<territory>K2</territory>
<territory>Hpt. Karl</territory>
</position>
<position> 
<territory>Smith</territory>
<territory>K3</territory>
<territory>Pvt. Gus</territory>
</position>
<position> 
<territory>Neal</territory>
<territory>K4</territory>
<territory>Hpt. Vim</territory>
</position>
<position> 
<territory>Mills</territory>
<territory>K5</territory>
<territory>Pvt. Otto</territory>
</position>
<position> 
<territory>Timms</territory>
<territory>K6</territory>
<territory>Pvt. Max</territory>
</position>
<position> 
<territory>Yves</territory>
<territory>K7</territory>
<territory>Pvt. Dax</territory>
</position>
<position> 
<territory>Casey</territory>
<territory>K8</territory>
<territory>Pvt. Wes</territory>
</position>
</positions>

In this latest version of this map, there are 32 positions coded as

<positions>
<position>
<territory>Philby</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>K1</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Obl. Hans</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Soldatenschlafzimmer C</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Jones</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>K2</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Hpt. Karl</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Soldatenschlafzimmer B</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Smith</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>K3</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Sdt. Gus</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Soldatenschlafzimmer A</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Neal</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>K4</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Hpt. Vim</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Das W.C.</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Mills</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>K5</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Sdt. Otto</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Lagerraum A</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Timms</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>K6</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Sdt. Max</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Lagerraum B</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Yves</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>K7</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Sdt. Dax</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Speiseraum</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Casey</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>K8</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Sdt. Wes</territory>
</position>
<position>
<territory>Lagerraum C</territory>
</position>
</positions>

I guess that latest version gives every player a chance at areas in the map, rather than only 3 areas if you're in a two player game.

So I see in game 7109229 above of tokle's that there are 5 parachute areas belonging to one player.

So what combination of start positions should you have according to the bonuses?

by **AAFitz** on Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:36 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:Perhaps my reactions have been too knee jerk because I didn't have problems before. I'll keep playing it and see what I think.

yeah, and honestly, youve played it 26 times total. I think perhaps its a little early to even guess what these changes will mean.

It needed change though, it has great potential, and its old settup was just too polar with bonuses. Now there should theoretically be many ways to win on it...

by **AAFitz** on Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:09 pm

first 1v1 game went exactly as expected... das shlobb trumps AA and chuttes, which is good

I have to figure out the other bonuses, embarassingly enough..I dont know what constitutes the other bonus

by **MrBenn** on Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:31 pm

Without grouping the start positions, then there's almost no point in them - especially here where everything else is starting neutral...

What was the rationale between splitting up the groupings?

by **jefjef** on Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:17 am

angola wrote:AA resets now?

That is ridiculous.

This map might as well be the Hive, because games will go on forever on it.

In all fairness, a huge game change such as this one, all ongoings should have received notification or just been deleted.

TheMissionary is in an 8 man dubs and he had over 50 sitting in AA when this change was made.

Well guess what.

by **natty dread** on Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:11 am

That's inconvenient for him, but if you look at the "start a game" page, there's a bolded text that says:

Warning: Maps designated as "Beta" might have unbalanced gameplay and undergo changes mid-game. Play at your own risk!

The last part being the relevant one. I would think it to be common sense that anyone who wants to play beta maps should keep an eye on the development threads for possible changes.

Now this would be a good incentive for people to come in the foundry. Perhaps once they're here, they'll leave some feedback, perhaps they'll check some other map threads as well...

Perhaps if the start a game page would also tell players to follow the map threads on beta maps so they wouldn't get surprised with changes, this all would happen...

by **AAFitz** on Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:47 am

natty_dread wrote:That's inconvenient for him, but if you look at the "start a game" page, there's a bolded text that says:

Warning: Maps designated as "Beta" might have unbalanced gameplay and undergo changes mid-game. Play at your own risk!

The last part being the relevant one. I would think it to be common sense that anyone who wants to play beta maps should keep an eye on the development threads for possible changes.

Now this would be a good incentive for people to come in the foundry. Perhaps once they're here, they'll leave some feedback, perhaps they'll check some other map threads as well...

Perhaps if the start a game page would also tell players to follow the map threads on beta maps so they wouldn't get surprised with changes, this all would happen...

That is true, though on this change was so radical, I do think it might have been cool to send a message to the ongoing games first to let them know AA was going to reset.

I myself just stayed away from the map until the change went through because I knew it would be soon enough. One day your strategy was going to win, and the next it was going to lose, and you had no idea when.

It was russian roulette on a german map. I really wish I had more time to enjoy it right now...so far, it seems awesome with this settup.

by **Firkarg** on Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:36 pm

I have a minor suggestion for this map based on the game I'm in: 7061288

Its an 8 player game where one player started with 2 parachute positions and another player with zero. While this will be interesting from a diplomatic view I believe it is an unfair advantage and should probably be coded so that they distribute evenly.

by **TheMissionary** on Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:51 am

jefjef wrote:
angola wrote:AA resets now?

That is ridiculous.

This map might as well be the Hive, because games will go on forever on it.

In all fairness, a huge game change such as this one, all ongoings should have received notification or just been deleted.

TheMissionary is in an 8 man dubs and he had over 50 sitting in AA when this change was made.

Well guess what.

Actually, I had 94 to be exact. 94 of my 115 troops.

by **AAFitz** on Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:47 am

Firkarg wrote:I have a minor suggestion for this map based on the game I'm in: 7061288

Its an 8 player game where one player started with 2 parachute positions and another player with zero. While this will be interesting from a diplomatic view I believe it is an unfair advantage and should probably be coded so that they distribute evenly.

was it intentionally made random? it was originally even, which was what so awesome about the map... now luck can give all parachutes, or all one bonus...i really hope this was just a mistake...

by **ender516** on Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:31 pm

It seems odd that when Pearl Harbour was being changed, all games were allowed to complete, but here the rug is simply pulled from under people. Yes, Pearl Harbour wasn't in Beta, but still, I think a little time could be taken for a warning. What's the rush?

by **skillfusniper33** on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:09 am

ender516 wrote:It seems odd that when Pearl Harbour was being changed, all games were allowed to complete, but here the rug is simply pulled from under people. Yes, Pearl Harbour wasn't in Beta, but still, I think a little time could be taken for a warning. What's the rush?

Well most of these games were in complete stalemates that were still going on, It may have hurt some people, but it also allowed the games to get moving for most of the ones i was in. Granite this was only a few games.

by **cairnswk** on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:23 am

ender516 wrote:It seems odd that when Pearl Harbour was being changed, all games were allowed to complete, but here the rug is simply pulled from under people. Yes, Pearl Harbour wasn't in Beta, but still, I think a little time could be taken for a warning. What's the rush?

ender516, some warning was given by myself to some games, but they may have completed by the time this upload was actually done. Given this update had taken some weeks to achieve, and the fact that this game is still in BETA (where changes can occur and everyone should know that) I don't think anyone has reason to complain. There was certainly no rush to get this update done. Given that the overall speed on the foundry has slowed to turtoise pace, i'm in no hurry.

by **cairnswk** on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:24 am

natty_dread wrote:That's inconvenient for him, but if you look at the "start a game" page, there's a bolded text that says:

Warning: Maps designated as "Beta" might have unbalanced gameplay and undergo changes mid-game. Play at your own risk!

The last part being the relevant one. I would think it to be common sense that anyone who wants to play beta maps should keep an eye on the development threads for possible changes.

Now this would be a good incentive for people to come in the foundry. Perhaps once they're here, they'll leave some feedback, perhaps they'll check some other map threads as well...

Perhaps if the start a game page would also tell players to follow the map threads on beta maps so they wouldn't get surprised with changes, this all would happen...

Well stated, but we all know that this never occurs.....

by **cairnswk** on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:28 am

AAFitz wrote:...
was it intentionally made random? it was originally even, which was what so awesome about the map... now luck can give all parachutes, or all one bonus...i really hope this was just a mistake...

the previous pages outline why the changes were made.
i agree the starting positions still need to be adjusted, but if someone could offer me a decent solution for the xml code, i'd be happy to implement. I'm afraid i don't have the time to go searching through xml stuff right now, as i have moved onto other non-CC projects.

by **AAFitz** on Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:35 am

cairnswk wrote:
AAFitz wrote:...
was it intentionally made random? it was originally even, which was what so awesome about the map... now luck can give all parachutes, or all one bonus...i really hope this was just a mistake...

the previous pages outline why the changes were made.
i agree the starting positions still need to be adjusted, but if someone could offer me a decent solution for the xml code, i'd be happy to implement. I'm afraid i don't have the time to go searching through xml stuff right now, as i have moved onto other non-CC projects.

except they ignore the people who actually play it.

no big deal. You had a great map, it was awesomely balanced...now its just regular giving the game to someone with a good drop.

Maybe someone will come around and make a das shloss 2 or something at some point.

I can win on it no matter what you do with it at this point, and I dont have time to play it anyways. I was only playing it now to help it, but theres no point if the core points are going to be changed each time and the best parts of it ignored.

Have fun with it.

Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

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