[Abandoned] - The Powell Expeditions

by **natty dread** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:58 pm

But it doesn't really fit with the 3d-shading of the canyons. It makes a weird thematic inconsistency: are we looking at a landscape from above or a map drawn on paper?

by **Industrial Helix** on Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:19 am

natty_dread wrote:But it doesn't really fit with the 3d-shading of the canyons. It makes a weird thematic inconsistency: are we looking at a landscape from above or a map drawn on paper?

Thematic inconsistency? Are all maps drawn as if viewed from above, even maps depicting elevation?

If you can make the graphics bump in where the paper fold is then I think you should keep the fold in.

by **TaCktiX** on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:41 pm

You're started in the right direction, and we're sure you'll do just fine in the Gameplay Workshop. Go get 'em.

by **WestWind** on Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:35 pm

Awesome, thanks to all so far who have helped me get here!

Anyways, there will be an update coming for this fairly soon. I'm just finishing up a rather busy set of weekends, so I'll have more time to devote to rolling out updates very soon

by **The Bison King** on Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:02 pm

This looks different. Very cool, and unique. I'd
like to play this for sure

by **WestWind** on Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:15 pm

Click image to enlarge.

Alrighty, new version with a few changes:
-Changed the paper texture to something more homogeneous. Like, dislike?
-Rearranged the Landmarks a little bit to give some more emphasis to the north.
-Added a small new bonus- Heritage. I figure I have a few well-known "ruins"in the map, so I thought I could tie them together with a bonus. If anyone has any more creative ideas than a typical bonus let me know

That's it for now. Thoughts on which direction you'd like to see this develop? I'm not about to believe that it needs no changes... :p

by **MarshalNey** on Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:36 pm

I'm ambivalent about the loss of the paper fold- on the one hand, it looked really good, on the other hand the comment about the map texture disagreeing with a 2D 'paper map' idea was probably valid.

Anyway, I don't like the 'broken canoe' icons. They're way too hard to see and I wouldn't know what they were supposed to be without being told.

I'd like to see a compass rose underneath the instruction about the river attack direction, with something to highlight on the compass the South-by-Southwest direction. Also, that instruction could probably stand to be larger or clearer (it blends a bit too much with the background), since it's pretty important.

I like the Heritage bonus and the icon for it.

Map looks great, can't wait to play it.

by **WestWind** on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:45 pm

Alright, I'll go back to the other background in the next version, but I'll probably need help once this gets to graphics in making the map conform to the folds. I'm still kinda new at making graphics, and all I have is Elements 5.

The change to the canoe I can do. I'll work on making a better image for that. Also, the compass rose shouldn't be too difficult, and would really clear things up, so I'll prioritize that. Thanks for the comments!

by **MrBenn** on Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:56 pm

I haven't scrutinised the map very closely, but this looks pretty good!

Before doing too much work on the graphics, I'd shrink the map down a bit, to make sure everything remains legible on the small map (max 630 x 600px) - the text is verging on the small size for me already, and we just need to make sure everything will fit on there.

You're going to need to be really careful about using the rivers as impassables in addition to bonus region indicators (I'm assuming that's what the blue boxes on the legend are referrring to?)... although on second thoughts, it might just be that those boxes don't correlate to the actual colours on the map... I think what I'm trying to say, is to keep things as simple as possible :lol:

The other thing I am going to suggest, is to bring all the instruction text that you've spread around the map into the same general area; You've got plenty of room in that legend space to fit everything in - it just adds confusion when important instructions are all over the place.

I'm interested to see how this develops - there's the potential for a good map here ;-)

by **Industrial Helix** on Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:26 pm

I dunno if you can squeeze in all that text into the same area... but certainly squeeze the stuff on the right hand side in with the left hand side stuff.

I don't totally understand what the heritage stuff is... perhaps you could fit a little explanation either on the territory or in the legend. You do a very nice job of telling story and information with pictures, perhaps you could change up the heritage icons a bit?

In places like cataract canyon, perhaps you could draw in a waterfall?

And looking at this map I'm starting to wonder what the scale is... perhaps something like a 1 inch = x miles might help to understand the scale of the Powell expeditions.

Tusayon to Little Colorado Canyon... doesn't one need a goat to get down there?

by **WestWind** on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:32 pm

Alright, I can condense things quite a bit I think...should give more room for fun stuff

I'll do a quick downsize on the next version and post it along with the large version. That should give us a quick indication of if the text size will work or not.

I think the main confusion with the colors comes from the change of background- it kinda threw off the original colors for the bonus regions- I'll see about fixing that

Heritage sites are basically Native American ruins- I'm planning on making some small illustrations for those, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe have a waterfall as the hazard symbol? It'd be more clear than a broken canoe, I think.

Thanks for pointing out the Tusayan-Little Colorado issue. I think the original donkey got lost in the conversion to the goat...

I think some sort of scale would be great...I'll try and think of a creative way of putting it in there.

Thanks for all the suggestions! New version coming once I catch a break in the next week or so

by **isaiah40** on Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:22 am

This is really started to look really good. Just one nitpick right now, You have an icon for the 71-72 expedition but I don't see one for the 69 expedition. Am I missing it? Or is the expedition actually on the rivers? I think this needs to be clarified, as for the rest of it, it is clear and understandable to me.

by **ender516** on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:38 pm

The Resupply icon needs a little work. The straight sides of the barrel make it look too much like a modern garbage can, and the sack tied at the top only reinforces the picture of a curbside pickup. Make the barrel bulge, add straps around it, and make a pile of sacks of flour (not tied at the top, but rectangular), or if the sacks don't work, try a wooden crate. Of course, this sort of thing can wait for the Graphics Workshop.

by **WestWind** on Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:28 pm

Isaiah: The 69 (lol) expedition is listed under as a region bonus- it's basically all of the maroon. Is that still unclear? If so, I can try and come up with another way of doing it.

Ender: First off, didn't anyone tell you it's GARBAGE DAY in the southwest!?

Second, thanks for the suggestions. They do look pretty bad, and I'll try and fix them up

by **isaiah40** on Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:37 pm

WestWind wrote:Isaiah: The 69 (lol) expedition is listed under as a region bonus- it's basically all of the maroon. Is that still unclear? If so, I can try and come up with another way of doing it.

Yes I see it now. Although it could use a little more clarifying as the colors in the bonus and the map do not seem to match.

by **WestWind** on Thu May 06, 2010 11:32 am

Just FYI, I have not disappeared. It's finals time, and I should be done early next week, so expect an update sometime a little after that

by **WestWind** on Tue May 11, 2010 10:09 pm

Click image to enlarge.

Update time!

Changes:
-Brought the old paper map texture back. I know there's problems with it, but I think we can fix those in the Graphics workshop.
-Made the colors match better between the key and the map. Hopefully that eliminates some confusion.
-Condensed the legends all to the left side. That frees up some space in the upper right corner that I think I can do some fun stuff with.
-Added a basic scale. I'm thinking of putting some other cartography tools up there to add to the theme.
-Added the footpath between Tusayan and the Little Colorado.
-Changed the Resupply icon a little bit. Still not happy with it, but it doesn't look like a garbage can anymore.
-Added a little illustration of the 1869 route. I'll probably combine it with some other illustration eventually so it doesn't look so out of place.
-Increased the legend font size.
-I tried making a better Hazards icon, but I can't come up with anything I like. The waterfall thing is a good idea, but very hard to illustrate in such small places.

I think that's about it. Any suggestions or comments? Most of the fixes have been graphical, which is fine, but since we're in the Gameplay workshop now, how does the gameplay look? Bonuses, routes, impassibles, etc? Any and all suggestions welcome.

Also, as of today I'm done with class this semester =D>

by **WestWind** on Wed May 19, 2010 12:07 am

So, uh, it's been about a week since I've posted an update and no one's commented. Still any interest in this?

by **The Bison King** on Wed May 19, 2010 12:19 am

I am.

by **natty dread** on Wed May 19, 2010 5:30 am

There's so much stuff in the foundry currently, that it can take a while for people to comment...

I'll try to take a good look at the gameplay later today.

by **MarshalNey** on Wed May 19, 2010 4:36 pm

I'd still prefer a compass rose to the arrows stuck on the river in the legend. I like the updates... Natty's right, there's a lot of maps going forward and this one seems well in hand, so I've been focusing on commenting on the ones that seemed more in need I guess.

by **Evil DIMwit** on Wed May 19, 2010 4:55 pm

I like the general idea of the gameplay, and the numbers seem to check out more or less. This quite a bit more complicated than we're used to, but that doesn't make it unplayable. On the other hand, if you feel like you can do without certain elements like heritage or resupply centers then it would certainly be easier to understand.

Gameplay Issues:

1. Perhaps reduce Black Mesa's bonus to 2, since it gets an auto-deploy.

2. Because of the one-way nature of the 1869 Expedition, players can't attack out of Upper Virgin River/Virgin River Mouth. I think that ought to be fixed somehow.

3. Which of your territories start neutral? And how many neutral troops do they start with?

Graphics/Organization Issues:

1. It would be nice if the lines along the canyons/mesas were more visually distinct than the lines between adjacent territories. Perhaps make them a bit thicker, and bolder in color.

2. Colorado & Gunnison Junction and Upper Colorado look like they're one territory. Maybe you can add a borderline along rivers when they're not territory-internal?

3. Goats don't look like very good bridges. I don't know how to fix that. Sorry.

4. Can you somehow visually distinguish the one-directional river territories so that it's clear on the map which ones they are and which direction they attack?

5. The legend really is all over the place. I'm not sure how you can organize it better, but it would help. At least group hazards next to resupply centers, since their functions are similar.

6. Some of the labels, like "Little Colorado Canyon," could be clearer in which territory they refer to.

7. Where are you going to fit the army number for Black Mesa? And Painted Desert? Make sure you can fit in numbers that are 33% bigger than the regular army numbers, because you'll have to fit them in when you reduce the map to small size.

8. Under the same token, make sure all the text can fit legibly once you shrink the map. You don't have to come up with a perfect small version, just make sure that everything fits.

Miscellaneous Issues:

1. Congrats on finishing the semester!

by **WestWind** on Wed May 19, 2010 11:35 pm

Alright, awesome suggestions

However, I'm going to be out of town from tomorrow til the 31st on vacation in Charleston, so updates will have to wait until after then. That gives plenty of time for lots more suggestions :-P

by **natty dread** on Thu May 20, 2010 3:35 pm

If I counted correctly you have 47 territories... the nearest acceptable numbers are 44 and 52, so you're going to have to code 3 territories as neutrals or add 5 more territories.

by **Evil DIMwit** on Thu May 20, 2010 3:41 pm

natty_dread wrote:If I counted correctly you have 47 territories... the nearest acceptable numbers are 44 and 52, so you're going to have to code 3 territories as neutrals or add 5 more territories.

Check the first post: Some of them start neutral, though it doesn't seem to specify which.

[Abandoned] - The Powell Expeditions

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