Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

by **cairnswk** on Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:52 pm

nippersean wrote:Hi,

Can anyone help with the dasdorf bit in the legend please. It gives +1 for 5 I only see 4 (DD I presume.)
Also UC / DC / Ss - there's no bonus associated?
...
thanks

Yes UC/DC/Ss are access-ways to/from the castle so they don't get bonuses that can clog the pathways

This is the composition of Das Dorf (The Village/town)

Code: Select all: <continent> <name>5 Das Dorf</name> <bonus>1</bonus> <components> <territory>Militärlager</territory> (Military Post) <territory>Markt</territory> (Market) <territory>Kneipe</territory> (Inn) <territory>HolzSchuppen</territory> (Wood shed) <territory>DD1</territory> <territory>DD2</territory> <territory>DD3</territory> <territory>DD4</territory> </components> <required>5</required> </continent>

by **chipv** on Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:59 pm

Regarding the initial drop and starting positions, my advice is to use the XML Wizard because you can repeatedly run initial drops by pressing the Play button. Then you can see how it would pan out in advance (I did that just to see how it looked, took less than 5 mins).

It is very easy to quickly see the difference and change values accordingly, totally up to you.

I don't actually know of a better/faster way to do this, which is primarily why I added it.

I also checked for deadlocks, and can't see any obvious ones, looks good, cairns, good job.

by **00iCon** on Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:36 pm

cairnswk wrote:
nippersean wrote:Hi,

Can anyone help with the dasdorf bit in the legend please. It gives +1 for 5 I only see 4 (DD I presume.)
Also UC / DC / Ss - there's no bonus associated?
...
thanks

Yes UC/DC/Ss are access-ways to/from the castle so they don't get bonuses that can clog the pathways

This is the composition of Das Dorf (The Village/town)
Code: Select all
<continent> <name>5 Das Dorf</name> <bonus>1</bonus> <components> <territory>Militärlager</territory> (Military Post) <territory>Markt</territory> (Market) <territory>Kneipe</territory> (Inn) <territory>HolzSchuppen</territory> (Wood shed) <territory>DD1</territory> <territory>DD2</territory> <territory>DD3</territory> <territory>DD4</territory> </components> <required>5</required> </continent>

At first sight, l didn't think Militärlager was part of the bonus. It's got a different texture...

by **cairnswk** on Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:57 pm

00iCon wrote:....It's got a different texture...

It might look slightly different but rest assured it's not.
The legend say "8 white patterend territories"...if you count them, you'll find there is 8.

by **AAFitz** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:14 am

cairnswk wrote:
00iCon wrote:....It's got a different texture...

It might look slightly different but rest assured it's not.
The legend say "8 white patterend territories"...if you count them, you'll find there is 8.

I dont suppose they could be stripped or something.....and trust me, I know i havent followed this thread...and i love the map...but i just played it 50 times in two days...and....the red warning for the access point is awesome...I actually wish there was a way to change the name to ACCESS
....................................... (resets) instead of point, just so not too many get caught...

the white bonus is a tricky one to see though.. .I definitely see it, but it without a doubt takes a few tries... the pattern looks awesome, but I imagine on a small screen its tough to see.

other than that nothing else jumps out right now. Ive seen people beat me from all four corners of the map, which is just the way it should be.

And again, I simply love the map. It allows for manual drop, not to be an instant dice shoot out, and while its possible to win the game on round one... Ive taken 20 or more rounds of intense battle to do so, and thats on 1v1.

my favorite moment was blocking someone on the access point
they were trying to block me, so they forted there, but i killed there way out before they could vacate it... a 43 army take down for the win.

by **AAFitz** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:10 pm

Is the bonus structure different now?

its giving ones for the parachuttes for deploy now. Was it meant to be that way from beginning, or was it mistake when updating something on map.

I saw the access point turn to red, that is better...more will see it...though im still in favor of dropping point and replacing it with (resets!)

by **cairnswk** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:22 pm

AAFitz wrote:Is the bonus structure different now?

its giving ones for the parachuttes for deploy now. Was it meant to be that way from beginning, or was it mistake when updating something on map.

please read the last two pages of this thread.

I saw the access point turn to red, that is better...more will see it...though im still in favor of dropping point and replacing it with (resets!)

i prefer access point.

by **AAFitz** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:37 pm

cairnswk wrote:
AAFitz wrote:Is the bonus structure different now?

its giving ones for the parachuttes for deploy now. Was it meant to be that way from beginning, or was it mistake when updating something on map.

please read the last two pages of this thread.

I saw the access point turn to red, that is better...more will see it...though im still in favor of dropping point and replacing it with (resets!)
i prefer access point.

well, Im glad i got 90 games in before you ruined it. Now the only possible option is to spend every army pointed at getting AA and getting and keeping parachutes...

before this change, you could win deploying down bottom or up top.. now you have to deploy down bottom and make sure you keep the chuttes, that bonus is ridiculous

It instantly ended every game I was in. Which was many.

Im not making this up either, as of now, Ive played 1/5 of the games played on this map in CC.

I dont know who wanted it changed, but they were wrong.

by **cairnswk** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:41 pm

AAFitz wrote:...
I dont know who wanted it changed, but they were wrong.

I made that decision :roll:

by **AAFitz** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:45 pm

cairnswk wrote:
AAFitz wrote:...
I dont know who wanted it changed, but they were wrong.

I made that decision

dont roll your eyes at me cairns... its youre map... I dont care what you do to it... I was just telling you that it was awesome... ive spent three days on it playing near 100 games, and its the most origianl map with more options than CC has.

but now, and I know im just a lowly player..im informing you that it has completely changed, and now theres one place to drop, and the advantage has now hugely gone to the first player

Take the advice, or dont take it... this will be my last advice for you though.

:roll:

by **the.killing.44** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:46 pm

cairnswk wrote:
AAFitz wrote:...
I dont know who wanted it changed, but they were wrong.

I made that decision

I haven't played 'er yet, so I'm not one to talk about the change, but I think Fitzy and his 90+ games trump your 2 games.

by **AAFitz** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:51 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
AAFitz wrote:...
I dont know who wanted it changed, but they were wrong.

I made that decision

I haven't played 'er yet, so I'm not one to talk about the change, but I think Fitzy and his 90+ games trump your 2 games.

No no, lets not question anything here. Its great. Dont change a thing.

And that access point only caught about 20 or 25 people in my games off guard. Wouldnt worry about that one bit though... its in the fine print...their own damn fault.

Screw the players, they dont matter anyways.

Either way I am thankful for the map. That was my fastest rise in 3.5 years of playing on CC.

Map Rank For aafitz
Options:
Map Rank Points Win/Loss Unique Defeats Kill Ratio Relative Rank
Totals Sergeant 1st Class22 +578 81 from 97(84%) 63 (1)

All Dassloss

And im not done yet.

though it will be more of flipping a coin than a strategy game now.

by **cairnswk** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:54 pm

Fitz...the rolling eyes were not meant to show disrespect to you.

What has been chenged can be undone...this is still in beta...but i might also remind you to keep calm, you are not the only player on this site regrardless of your credentials (and no disrespect there either)

by **AAFitz** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:58 pm

cairnswk wrote:Fitz...the rolling eyes were not meant to show disrespect to you.

What has been chenged can be undone...this is still in beta...but i might also remind you to keep calm, you are not the only player on this site regrardless of your credentials (and no disrespect there either)

No probs, your map, do as you will. But :roll:

was disrespect..but no worries, its your baby... Ill play it whatever you do to it.

Im just not wasting my time making suggestions thats all.

you were right that it needed a little bonus tweaking...you just did it in the wrong place.

you doubled the bonus in one area

what needed was a slight addition to the bonus on the bottom right, which is useless, and to the top right, which is a possible win drop, but more unlikely...but hey... what do I know.

by **natty dread** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:07 pm

Hey Fitz, the hostility is very much uncalled for. You could try spending months of your time - for free - making a map to an online site and getting nothing but complaints as a reward...

I always thought of you as a levelheaded guy Fitz... Let's just calm down and try to think of feasible solutions instead of pointing fingers, eh?

by **AAFitz** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:13 pm

natty_dread wrote:Hey Fitz, the hostility is very much uncalled for. You could try spending months of your time - for free - making a map to an online site and getting nothing but complaints as a reward...

I always thought of you as a levelheaded guy Fitz... Let's just calm down and try to think of feasible solutions instead of pointing fingers, eh?

I completely agree. But its not hostility. Its frustration.

I just played nearly 100 back to back games on the map, and realized it to be the most balanced 1v1 game on CC, perhaps the most balanced strategy based map ever made, and then on the ten games had the winner simply decided by a flip of a coin, because now instead of two maybe three bonus areas, there is now one.

Its not my map though, and its more that I thought it was near perfect before which is why I mentioned it. It is only 100 games though, its possible Im wrong, I just dont think so.

In my defense, I was putting some time into real suggestions, and some important points, and getting rewarded with some quip remarks and a little eyes roll, but I agree, my posts were a little out of line. I assure you though, the points are all valid.

by **natty dread** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:23 pm

Hey, I understand where you're coming from... but if nobody would have complained about the map then it likely wouldn't have been changed. Cairns is most probably just trying to go by the suggestions & feedback given to him, like any mapmaker...

Also it's good to remember that tone of speech is hard to relay through the internet. What one intends as a light joke, another can read as a serious insult...

But anyway, I have yet to finish a game on this map, so I'm going to butt off this discussion for now. I hope everything can be resolved in a satisfactory way, to all parties.

by **AAFitz** on Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:35 pm

natty_dread wrote:Hey, I understand where you're coming from... but if nobody would have complained about the map then it likely wouldn't have been changed. Cairns is most probably just trying to go by the suggestions & feedback given to him, like any mapmaker...

Also it's good to remember that tone of speech is hard to relay through the internet. What one intends as a light joke, another can read as a serious insult...

But anyway, I have yet to finish a game on this map, so I'm going to butt off this discussion for now. I hope everything can be resolved in a satisfactory way, to all parties.

Oh it always is... and to be honest, nearly every game i played is manual, so that does change things...but already in the few new games, its just a dice shootout... it turned it into doodle game for anyone that knows what they are doing

I should also be thankful. Now the whole game centers around AA.... the way it should.

by **MarshalNey** on Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:59 pm

I realize that I haven't read all 78 pages of this thread (just the last one), but I'm playing a game on Das Schloss with 6 players... and 2 of the players started with 2 parachutes, the rest of us with only 1.

It seems like an unfair advantage since only 2 of the 8 players got a de facto 7 manually deployed troops per turn as opposed to our 5, and a total troop advantage of +4 in the first few rounds.

Is there any way to make sure that the 'extra' parachutes are neutral?

by **ViperOverLord** on Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:01 pm

I've played this map a few times and it is definitely one of the better maps. But I do see some things that could and really should be improved IMO.

- Landeplatz A & B / Hubschrauber A & B- It says they both reset to 14 neutral / 60 neutral but that is only once they are owned for a turn. That should be clarified. It's important to know that you can chip away at them w/o having your work reset.

- Landeplatz A &B - Resetting LA/LB to neutral is tolerable but not necessary IMO. At 14, using those passes when it resets is not a viable option. I would not mind just putting it at 20 and making it not resettable.

- Landeplatz / Hubschrauber - What is the point of going through 14/60 (resettable) to take out the remaining parachutes? If a player has the ability to do all that he is much more easily going to just control the game from AA and take the objectives. The L/H option is just something that is fun to do but is just going to get your opponent mad at you for not finishing them faster. It is not at all a viable part of the game. My reccommendation is make the Landeplatz areas at 20 and non resettable. Make the Hubschrauber boats 5 and make them resettable to neutral.

by **cairnswk** on Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:53 pm

MarshalNey wrote:I realize that I haven't read all 78 pages of this thread (just the last one), but I'm playing a game on Das Schloss with 6 players... and 2 of the players started with 2 parachutes, the rest of us with only 1.

It seems like an unfair advantage since only 2 of the 8 players got a de facto 7 manually deployed troops per turn as opposed to our 5, and a total troop advantage of +4 in the first few rounds.

Is there any way to make sure that the 'extra' parachutes are neutral?

Yes, that should be fixed with a recent upload to the xml.
You probably started your game before that was done.

by **cairnswk** on Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:01 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:I've played this map a few times and it is definitely one of the better maps. But I do see some things that could and really should be improved IMO.

- Landeplatz A & B / Hubschrauber A & B- It says they both reset to 14 neutral / 60 neutral but that is only once they are owned for a turn. That should be clarified. It's important to know that you can chip away at them w/o having your work reset.

I understand what you are saying, but where to put it?

- Landeplatz A &B - Resetting LA/LB to neutral is tolerable but not necessary IMO. At 14, using those passes when it resets is not a viable option. I would not mind just putting it at 20 and making it not resettable.

Unfortunately those who devised this plan were happy with the current situation.

- Landeplatz / Hubschrauber - What is the point of going through 14/60 (resettable) to take out the remaining parachutes? If a player has the ability to do all that he is much more easily going to just control the game from AA and take the objectives. The L/H option is just something that is fun to do but is just going to get your opponent mad at you for not finishing them faster. It is not at all a viable part of the game. My reccommendation is make the Landeplatz areas at 20 and non resettable. Make the Hubschrauber boats 5 and make them resettable to neutral.

The Landeplatz is an easy option of getting to two of the three objective areas...remember this is essentially an objective to win map, however, In the previous version as you possibly know there was no way to win if there was a stalement. This became the case in a couple of games. So i don't agree with you about the statement that L/H option is something fun to do...it is there for a very specific reason.

And as a result of chipping away at the Hubscrauber neutrals, in one game i have seen I would suggest that players fortify their parachutes quite heavily.

by **barterer2002** on Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:02 pm

cairnswk wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
barterer2002 wrote: In this game when I go to reinforce I'm being asked by the drop down menu to reinforce from Philby however I don't hold Philby I hold Smith.

You hold Philby.
I agree

OK now that you say that I can see that but I don't think its very clear. I realize its likely far to late to change anything here but it certainly doesn't look it without searching through all of the others. A quick glance would have Neal Smith and Philby fairly confused. To solve the problem, if its possible at this point, I would make them consistent so that Casey, Mills, Philby and Timms are all listed directly below their oval while Jones, Neal, Smith and Yves would be to the right of the parachute (as Jones and Neal currently are).

Cairns, I apologize profusely for not seeing this issue earlier as I know I looked at the map many times over the past year but sometimes issues seem to come up when you play that you don't notice ahead of time.

by **Capitino** on Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:09 pm

I've been playing several 1vs1 games on it and it found a very effective way to take a huge advantage when you start. The tactics are like this:
- you get 5 troops, spread them evenly over the paratroopers (1 each and 1 to place where you like)
- from every paratrooper, take the next two countries, this gives a huge bonus
- your opponent will probably do the same, since it is by far the best thing to do
- now you get 16 troops to deploy, find the territory next to the access point that has the most armies and put them all on it
- from here you take access point, Sdt Gerd, DD3, AA and you destroy all C1-Y2 of you opponent
You'll probably get pretty far with destroying your opponents bonusses and this gives you a huge benefit, already in round 2. Maybe this is something to consider.

by **cairnswk** on Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:22 pm

Capitino wrote:I've been playing several 1vs1 games on it and it found a very effective way to take a huge advantage when you start. The tactics are like this:
- you get 5 troops, spread them evenly over the paratroopers (1 each and 1 to place where you like)
- from every paratrooper, take the next two countries, this gives a huge bonus
- your opponent will probably do the same, since it is by far the best thing to do
- now you get 16 troops to deploy, find the territory next to the access point that has the most armies and put them all on it
- from here you take access point, Sdt Gerd, DD3, AA and you destroy all C1-Y2 of you opponent
You'll probably get pretty far with destroying your opponents bonusses and this gives you a huge benefit, already in round 2. Maybe this is something to consider.

OK, so what would you recommend Capitino?

Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

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