[GO] Constant (Very Flat) Rate Spoils
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by Teflon Kris on Wed May 13, 2009 2:35 pm
Good shout - I like the idea
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by TruePurple on Wed May 13, 2009 2:47 pm
Benefits:
1. The spoils being tied to a spot on the board and giving a bonus (which I could see being increased to say 3) if you control that spot would still exist. That part of it I always found to be the best part.
2. When you use your spoils would also be strategic, Do you use your spoils early in order to gain some early advantage? Or latter and get more troops from them. It would all depend on the situation.
3. Thezzaruz also pointed out that the encouraging of attacking is another important part of spoils. (and why they are named such)
4. Being able to get a surge of troops without skipping turns is yet another point of spoils.
5. Yet another point is rewarding players for finishing off other players.
Those of you who claim the only point of flat rate spoils is adding addition luck to the game have no idea what you're talking about.
1. The spoils being tied to a spot on the board and giving a bonus (which I could see being increased to say 3) if you control that spot would still exist. That part of it I always found to be the best part.
2. When you use your spoils would also be strategic, Do you use your spoils early in order to gain some early advantage? Or latter and get more troops from them. It would all depend on the situation.
3. Thezzaruz also pointed out that the encouraging of attacking is another important part of spoils. (and why they are named such)
4. Being able to get a surge of troops without skipping turns is yet another point of spoils.
5. Yet another point is rewarding players for finishing off other players.
Those of you who claim the only point of flat rate spoils is adding addition luck to the game have no idea what you're talking about.
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by wolfpack0530 on Sun May 24, 2009 6:44 pm
I vote yes for true flat rate. good idea
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Re-define Flat Rate Bonus or Create New Bonus Type
by Simreth on Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:13 pm
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Re: Change FLAT RATE bonuses.
Postby Simreth on Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:03 pm
lancehoch wrote:
e_i_pi wrote:
Joodoo wrote:
e_i_pi wrote:The chances of having a mixed is the same as the chances of having a coloured set you know
then we should make all of the sets worth 10 armies / 8 armies
That's what I mean.
RRR: 6 armies
GGG: 6 armies
BBB: 6 armies
RGB: 10 armies
is exactly the same as
RRR: 10 armies
GGG: 6 armies
BBB: 6 armies
RGB: 6 armies
statistically
pi, that is not true.
Subject: 10 army sets... are these common to turn in repeatedly?
lancehoch wrote:To answer the question from the thread title, actually mixed sets are more common than any single instance of a single colored set:
3 cards: 27 possibilities- 1/27 red, 1/27 green, 1/27 blue, 6/27 mixed, 18/27 no set
4 cards: 81 possibilities- 9/81 red, 9/81 green, 9/81 blue, 36/81 mixed, 18/81 no set
5 cards (note you can have a mixed set and a plain color set, I am counting these as mixed): 243 possibilities- 31/243 red, 31/243 green, 31/243 blue, 150/243 mixed, 0/243 no set
in percentages (mixed only):
3 cards: 22.22%
4 cards: 44.44%
5 cards: 61.73%
So to answer your question, yes it is very common to get a mixed set.
More in depth analysis for the 5 card situations:
only red: 31/243
only green: 31/243
only blue: 31/243
only mixed: 90/243
red and mixed: 20/243
green and mixed: 20/243
blue and mixed: 20/243
totals:
red: 51/243
green: 51/243
blue: 51/243
mixed: 150/243
What I would suggest is (if there is to be a change) actually changing the values to mixed = 4 and red/green/blue = 10.
Given the probabilities I would agree that there should be a game type to compensate for this. Possibly a true flat rate, 6 or 8 or 10 whatever, but all sets given equal compensation.
However relatively speaking the cumulative probability of turning in all of one color, red is = green is = blue.
With 5 cards, that is to say P(RRR, GGG, BBB) = 153/243 or about 63% vs. any combination of P(RGB) at about = 62%
At 4 cards, P(RRR, GGG, BBB) = 33% vs any combination of P(RGB) = 44%
At only 3 cards P(RRR, GGG, BBB) = 11% vs. any combination of P(RGB) = 22%
If we were going to be "Fair" about compensation for cards we would have to figure out a percentage based measurement which would be separate for each number of cards such as:
With 5 cards compensation for RRR, GGG, BBB = RGB since percentages are relatively the same.
With 4 cards possibly one extra troop.
With 3 cards perhaps a set of RRR, GGG, BBB should be 2xRGB that of RGB or maybe two additional troops since the likelihood is half.
The problem is figuring out how large a percentage advantage is needed for each additional troop. It all seems fairly extreme, it would be much easier to just make another variation of game with a true flat and equal rate for any card set.
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Re: Change FLAT RATE bonuses.
Postby Simreth on Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:03 pm
lancehoch wrote:
e_i_pi wrote:
Joodoo wrote:
e_i_pi wrote:The chances of having a mixed is the same as the chances of having a coloured set you know
then we should make all of the sets worth 10 armies / 8 armies
That's what I mean.
RRR: 6 armies
GGG: 6 armies
BBB: 6 armies
RGB: 10 armies
is exactly the same as
RRR: 10 armies
GGG: 6 armies
BBB: 6 armies
RGB: 6 armies
statistically
pi, that is not true.
Subject: 10 army sets... are these common to turn in repeatedly?
lancehoch wrote:To answer the question from the thread title, actually mixed sets are more common than any single instance of a single colored set:
3 cards: 27 possibilities- 1/27 red, 1/27 green, 1/27 blue, 6/27 mixed, 18/27 no set
4 cards: 81 possibilities- 9/81 red, 9/81 green, 9/81 blue, 36/81 mixed, 18/81 no set
5 cards (note you can have a mixed set and a plain color set, I am counting these as mixed): 243 possibilities- 31/243 red, 31/243 green, 31/243 blue, 150/243 mixed, 0/243 no set
in percentages (mixed only):
3 cards: 22.22%
4 cards: 44.44%
5 cards: 61.73%
So to answer your question, yes it is very common to get a mixed set.
More in depth analysis for the 5 card situations:
only red: 31/243
only green: 31/243
only blue: 31/243
only mixed: 90/243
red and mixed: 20/243
green and mixed: 20/243
blue and mixed: 20/243
totals:
red: 51/243
green: 51/243
blue: 51/243
mixed: 150/243
What I would suggest is (if there is to be a change) actually changing the values to mixed = 4 and red/green/blue = 10.
Given the probabilities I would agree that there should be a game type to compensate for this. Possibly a true flat rate, 6 or 8 or 10 whatever, but all sets given equal compensation.
However relatively speaking the cumulative probability of turning in all of one color, red is = green is = blue.
With 5 cards, that is to say P(RRR, GGG, BBB) = 153/243 or about 63% vs. any combination of P(RGB) at about = 62%
At 4 cards, P(RRR, GGG, BBB) = 33% vs any combination of P(RGB) = 44%
At only 3 cards P(RRR, GGG, BBB) = 11% vs. any combination of P(RGB) = 22%
If we were going to be "Fair" about compensation for cards we would have to figure out a percentage based measurement which would be separate for each number of cards such as:
With 5 cards compensation for RRR, GGG, BBB = RGB since percentages are relatively the same.
With 4 cards possibly one extra troop.
With 3 cards perhaps a set of RRR, GGG, BBB should be 2xRGB that of RGB or maybe two additional troops since the likelihood is half.
The problem is figuring out how large a percentage advantage is needed for each additional troop. It all seems fairly extreme, it would be much easier to just make another variation of game with a true flat and equal rate for any card set.
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Re: Re-define Flat Rate Bonus or Create New Bonus Type
by nippersean on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:01 pm
But why would you want to do this?
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Re: Re-define Flat Rate Bonus or Create New Bonus Type
by AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:40 am
This seems to be more Suggestion than Question. Moved on over.
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make flat rate spoils actually flat rate
by talonz on Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:01 pm
New to this site, happy to find it! However, I was shocked in my first game when someone turned in the first set of the game in a flat rate set for 10 armies! At another site, flat rate is just that, flat. 4 armies per set, no variation.
The 4/6/8/10 setup currently in use for flat rate is more of a wildcard rate. I would label it that and put in a true flat rate option. (static non-variable 4/set)
Even better, have the flat rate be set by the game starter to whatever number they like.
I really dont care for escalating nor the wild set option, but I do like getting cards.
The 4/6/8/10 setup currently in use for flat rate is more of a wildcard rate. I would label it that and put in a true flat rate option. (static non-variable 4/set)
Even better, have the flat rate be set by the game starter to whatever number they like.
I really dont care for escalating nor the wild set option, but I do like getting cards.
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Re: make flat rate spoils actually flat rate
by TeeGee on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:06 am
could be an interesting variation
maybe keep the current flat rate and introduce a new "static" rate?
maybe keep the current flat rate and introduce a new "static" rate?
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Re: make flat rate spoils actually flat rate
by max is gr8 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:40 am
‹max is gr8› so you're a tee-total healthy-eating sex-addict?
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Re: make flat rate spoils actually flat rate
by jammyjames on Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:22 pm
talonz wrote:New to this site, happy to find it! However, I was shocked in my first game when someone turned in the first set of the game in a flat rate set for 10 armies! At another site, flat rate is just that, flat. 4 armies per set, no variation.
The 4/6/8/10 setup currently in use for flat rate is more of a wildcard rate. I would label it that and put in a true flat rate option. (static non-variable 4/set)
Even better, have the flat rate be set by the game starter to whatever number they like.
I really dont care for escalating nor the wild set option, but I do like getting cards.
game is played via the 1975 rule set... meaning either spoils go up escalating, or cash's are 4, 6, 8 , 10 depending on card colour...
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Re: make flat rate spoils actually flat rate
by packrat31306 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:31 pm
TeeGee wrote:could be an interesting variation
maybe keep the current flat rate and introduce a new "static" rate?
It would be cool to add the variation as long as the current ones aren't removed.....that would suck...
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by PrayingTigre on Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:53 am
What if the flat rate increases as turns progress. For example, assume that from turns 1-6, all sets are worth 6 troops. Perhaps turns 7-12, all sets could be worth 10. Turns 13-18, all sets worth 14... etc.
You can always keep the red vs. blue vs. green vs. mixed differences.
You can always keep the red vs. blue vs. green vs. mixed differences.
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Re:
by AAFitz on Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:08 am
mach wrote:How about letting the creator choose the value of the set of cards? Then it could be adjust according to the map and personal preference
wow, thats a really good idea if possible.... some maps need 10, 6, or 4 respectively.... this really will add some strategy into the game, without pushing it as forward as fast as say escalating.
the only thing is, player one getting an extra 10 on turn one every turn, will certainly result in player one winning a higher percentage of games
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by Queen_Herpes on Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:30 pm
If you can refine it, try to get the admins to make it happen. The more new options, the better.
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by rhp 1 on Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:37 pm
PrayingTigre wrote:What if the flat rate increases as turns progress. For example, assume that from turns 1-6, all sets are worth 6 troops. Perhaps turns 7-12, all sets could be worth 10. Turns 13-18, all sets worth 14... etc.
You can always keep the red vs. blue vs. green vs. mixed differences.
that's just modified esc. the original idea is better...
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by max is gr8 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:05 pm
Which might not be a bad thing, lets face it card variations are the way forward.
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by Beckytheblondie on Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:26 pm
General Mayhem wrote:Hang on. So whats the point in having cards then? If theyre all the damn same value. Just dont use em!
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by superkarn on Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:29 am
Beckytheblondie wrote:General Mayhem wrote:Hang on. So whats the point in having cards then? If theyre all the damn same value. Just dont use em!
We have ourselves a winner. *Ding Ding Ding*. Densest bloke on the site...
Maybe you guys didn't read the whole thread, but they're not "all the damn same value."
And for the name calling
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by TheForgivenOne on Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:19 pm
Due to the poorly worded Poll, i deleted it, and added a new one
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Re: Real Flat Rate Option *Pending*
by Army of GOD on Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:25 pm
Please, for the love of God, MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
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Fixed Spoils
by Victor Sullivan on Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:26 am
Concise description:
Specifics/Details:
How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
- Same flat rate bonus for all card sets
Specifics/Details:
- The idea is to have a troop bonus that applies to all card combinations i.e. 4 troops for 3 reds, 3 greens, 3 blues, or 1 of each.
How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
- More balanced play
- Reduces the luck factor of card bonuses
Last edited by Victor Sullivan on Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:12 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Flat Rate Across All Card Combinations
by ManBungalow on Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:19 am
If you don't like the cards the way they are, don't use them as a game setting.
Just check this box when you create/find a game:
Just check this box when you create/find a game:
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Re: Flat Rate Across All Card Combinations
by Woodruff on Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:06 am
ManBungalow wrote:If you don't like the cards the way they are, don't use them as a game setting.
Just check this box when you create/find a game:
"No Spoils Checked"
But that doesn't logically follow at all, because there is a tremendous difference between "no spoils" and what he is suggesting.
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Re: Flat Rate Across All Card Combinations
by jak111 on Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:48 am
but if that happened then it wouldn't be like normal risk at all >.>
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Re: Flat Rate Across All Card Combinations
by Woodruff on Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:36 pm
jak111 wrote:but if that happened then it wouldn't be like normal risk at all >.>
You mean like "nuclear spoils" is?
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