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[Abandoned] - Time and Place Map

Abandoned and Vacationed maps. The final resting place, unless you recycle.

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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby wcaclimbing on Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:42 pm

edbeard wrote:2. in the present, there's an E above the Europe label


East Europe, maybe?
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby yeti_c on Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:43 pm

The links between times should only be able to go back 1 time period at a time...

i.e.
Present - can only link to Past/Future.
Panganea can only link to Past.

C.
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby edbeard on Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:44 pm

wcaclimbing wrote:
edbeard wrote:2. in the present, there's an E above the Europe label


East Europe, maybe?


ahh yes.

I thought it was missing a shadow. as shown by my edit (before you responded but apparently not soon enough for you to see it before quoting my post (now I look like a REAL fool)).
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby WidowMakers on Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:50 pm

Up for discussion:
    1) # of total territories
    2) Borders
    3) # and location of Time portals
    4) Bonuses (after 1-3)
    5) Plus graphics

Still to do:
    1) Rework Title and legends
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby gimil on Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:40 pm

Back to drafts like you asked widowmakers :)

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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby MrBenn on Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:53 pm

I had a brief look at this earlier, and haven't had enough time to think through the gameplay yet ;-)

The portals aren't that clear, and I'm trying to work out if there is another way to represent them... how about different style clocks? You could use stone circles, sundials, egg-timers, pocket-watch, wristwatch, digital clock, grandfather clock, cuckoo clock, carriage clock, atomic clock... just some examples off the top of my head - although that may be even more confusing???

Graphics-wise, I'm sure you've got a trick or two up your sleeve yet ;-)
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby WidowMakers on Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:56 am

MrBenn wrote:I had a brief look at this earlier, and haven't had enough time to think through the gameplay yet ;-)

The portals aren't that clear, and I'm trying to work out if there is another way to represent them... how about different style clocks? You could use stone circles, sundials, egg-timers, pocket-watch, wristwatch, digital clock, grandfather clock, cuckoo clock, carriage clock, atomic clock... just some examples off the top of my head - although that may be even more confusing???

Graphics-wise, I'm sure you've got a trick or two up your sleeve yet ;-)
I agree they are dark and hard to see. These were the ones from the original map that Jota gave me. I am planning on making them white or at least lighter. Maybe with a glow or something.
The problem with making them too fancy is that they take up so much extra room. That is especially bad in all of the europes because the Europe terts are so small.

I will try to make several differnt styles and we can all talk about them.

yeti_c wrote:The links between times should only be able to go back 1 time period at a time...
i.e.
Present - can only link to Past/Future.
Panganea can only link to Past.
C.
Good idea. It limits movement and the power of the time gates. It makes it easier to hold a time period than a pace across time. Which I am sure is easier anyway.

I will go over the map and list all connections and borders so we have a better idea of what we are dealing with. ( I think someone did a bonus assessment on the old map earlier in the thread)

edbeard is right that there are no middle sided easy-t-hold bonuses.

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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby WidowMakers on Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:04 am

Here is where we are right now for territories and borders
Current 49 territories total
Time
Pangea
    Territories 4
    Borders 3
Past
    Territories 13
    Borders 7
Present
    Territories 16
    Borders 6
Future
    Territories 11
    Borders 7
Eschaton
    Territories 5
    Borders 3

Place
NA
    Territories 9
    Borders 13 (does not count portals from same color)
SA
    Territories 7
    Borders 8 (does not count portals from same color)
Europe
    Territories 8
    Borders 15 (one border from portal of different color [Eurasia/Pangea])
Asia
    Territories 13
    Borders 16(one border from portal of different color [Eurasia/Pangea])
Africa
    Territories 8
    Borders 10 (does not count portals from same color)
AU
    Territories 4
    Borders 2 (does not count portals from same color)

The number of territories and borders for the places is just TOO big. Below is a proposal to remove 6 territories to make the sizes a bit better. The actual borders can then be tweaked. I think right now there are TOO many portals. I think that no time period should have more than 3. But I will leave that discussion for later.

==================================================================

Maybe should be 42 territories
    (2/3 player [14 each]
    4 player [10 each, 2 N]
    5 player [8 each, 2 N]
    6 player [7 each]
    7 player [6 each]
    8 player [5 each, 2 N]
Borders would change with removal of territories and portals.

Time
Pangea
    Territories 4
    Borders 3
Past
    Territories 10 (delete 2 asia / delete 1 SA)
    Borders 7
Present
    Territories 14 (delete 1 NA / delete 1 Euro)
    Borders 6
Future
    Territories 9 (delete 1 asia / delete 1 africa)
    Borders 7
Eschaton
    Territories 5
    Borders 3

Place
NA
    Territories 8 (1 deleted from Present[Mexico])
    Borders 13 (does not count portals from same color)
SA
    Territories 6 (1 deleted from Past[Chavin])
    Borders 8 (does not count portals from same color)
Europe
    Territories 7 (1 deleted from Present [Merge Scand and W.Euro])
    Borders 15 (one border from portal of different color [Eurasia/Pangea])
Asia
    Territories 10 ( 2 deleted from Past[Keep Qin and Mongols] / 1 deleted from future [merge Shin Nipon and Siberion =Siberion)
    Borders 16(one border from portal of different color [Eurasia/Pangea])
Africa
    Territories 7 (1 deleted from future[Legion])
    Borders 10 (does not count portals from same color)
AU
    Territories 4
    Borders 2 (does not count portals from same color)

==================================================================

So that basic question is, How many territories do we want. With the current number now, the tert count for the PLACES is too high. By removing 7 terts, the PLACE bonuses have a better chance be being more reasonable and holdable.

If this is a good solution and 42 is a good number, I can rework the map and the borders. Once those are done we can start on the portals.

Basically the portals are the borders of time. Once a player holds a time period, their only borders are portals. We need to balance the number of portals to the size of the time.
Right now even with the reduction: PAST has 10 terts with 7 portals / Present has 14 terts with 6 portals / Future has 9 terts with 7 portals. These obviously need to come down some.

WM
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby WidowMakers on Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:03 pm

Any thoughts as to territory count?
Border Count/Locations?
and Portal locations?

WM
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby MrBenn on Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:27 pm

WidowMakers wrote:Any thoughts as to territory count?

That depends on whether you want to optimize for the least neutral starts, or for the most balanced start... I must find a link to the 'golden numbers' thread...
WidowMakers wrote:Border Count/Locations?

I think reducing the number of borders will help a bit... I'll have more of a think about where would be best...
WidowMakers wrote:and Portal locations?

I'd be inclined to have 1 portal per continent that connected to the portal in the same continent in an adjacent timezone... That might help to make all the labeling a bit clearer too??
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby whitestazn88 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:23 am

man, i remember this is one of the first maps that i really looked at back in the day. it still impresses me, especially the concept.

totally wicked, not in regards to the moderator, but to the 90s slang for great.

i'm sold and i'm glad you came back to it
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby e_i_pi on Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:28 am

This map looked awesome until I noticed Australia has been squeezed out in the future. Thanks man, makes me feel great about my country :roll:
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby yeti_c on Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:31 am

e_i_pi wrote:This map looked awesome until I noticed Australia has been squeezed out in the future. Thanks man, makes me feel great about my country :roll:


I thought that was one of the better points to the map :P :P

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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby e_i_pi on Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:35 am

yeti_c wrote:
e_i_pi wrote:This map looked awesome until I noticed Australia has been squeezed out in the future. Thanks man, makes me feel great about my country :roll:


I thought that was one of the better points to the map :P :P

C.

I'd like to see your country win a war without our diggers stepping in and taking the brunt of it :twisted:

Maybe we should just squeeze out USA. What with the global financial crisis, I can't see them existing as a superpower for too much longer anyhow. No-one would mind if America was quietly ushered out the door would they?
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby Ditocoaf on Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:39 am

e_i_pi wrote:
yeti_c wrote:
e_i_pi wrote:This map looked awesome until I noticed Australia has been squeezed out in the future. Thanks man, makes me feel great about my country :roll:


I thought that was one of the better points to the map :P :P

C.

I'd like to see your country win a war without our diggers stepping in and taking the brunt of it :twisted:

Maybe we should just squeeze out USA. What with the global financial crisis, I can't see them existing as a superpower for too much longer anyhow. No-one would mind if America was quietly ushered out the door would they?

Meh, I live close enough to Canada, I could make the change fairly smoothly. Sure.
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby WidowMakers on Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:30 am

e_i_pi wrote:This map looked awesome until I noticed Australia has been squeezed out in the future. Thanks man, makes me feel great about my country :roll:
Blame Jota. This was his initial idea. I am just making it a reality.

I have no problem with listening to suggestions. But there were TOO many portals and TOO many borders. By taking away AU from Eschaton, the map actually played better because there is a time period that is still easy to hold (well easier).

I will get back to this after USA 6 pack is closer to finished.

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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby MrBenn on Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:36 pm

[Moved]

Once you've got the USA 6-pack out of the way and updated the map, we'll get you back into the foundry system ;-)

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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:58 pm

Well does anyone want to see this come back? I am up for it if you are.

The main issues I see are the HUGE number of borders that each bonus group has.
We either need to dramatically change the number of time portals or redo the entire layout.

Any suggestions?
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:04 am

With only a quick first look, i must say that I prefer this map to your other similar(?) idea (4x classic).
But now I'm in a hurry and i'll give a more seriously look at it this evening.

Nobodies ;)
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Re: Time and Place Map

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:05 pm

It's not just the number of borders, this map is a mess. If I'm not mistaken, two of the time periods have their Oceania bit sliced off, making them unattainable if Protoceania is blocked off. Meanwhile there is no 'place' region that doesn't rely on a single territory completely isolated from the rest. The only partway defensible regions are Pangaea, Eschaton, and Oceania -- notably, if the latter two are being held then no other bonuses are possible at all. This map needs a pretty drastic overhaul.

For convenience (and because I hate my free time) I've represented this map as an almost-planar graph, and with connections that I think would be fairly easy to remove in orange (for time portals) and blue (for water routes, or routes that can easily be flooded over):
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http://dimagic.webs.com/ConquerClub/TimeGraph.png
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