[Abandoned] - Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade

by **Ruben Cassar** on Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:29 pm

Shouldn't it be Anno Domini instead of Anno Domine?

by **Beko the Great** on Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:22 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:Shouldn't it be Anno Domini instead of Anno Domine?

Yeah! I guess so! Sorry, I'm not a latin expert :oops:

by **Sardauk** on Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:17 pm

miniwally wrote:yeh cyprus was byzantine but i think you misunderstood me before as you were on about antioch being under kingdom of jerusalem before where it wasn't it was ruled by a seperate principality the principality of Antioch

Yeah, well. The Muslims are more or less bunched up together, as are Scandinavians, so it would seem logical that the Latin Franks would be to. Sure, the king had to ask the prince of Antioch for support and couldn't just summon him when he felt like it. Even his own barons had a great deal of autonomy. Still, the realpolitik of living in a small crusader state surrounded by Muslims necessitated close ties, and Antioch was in any case far from allied with the Turks, as the map would suggest.

Anyway, I see that I'm looking at this in the wrong light. There's Asia Minor, with Turks and Latins intermixed with Armenians and some Byzantines, and then there's the Islamic Caliphates, encompassing various cultures like the Abbasids, Fatimids, Almoravids, and nomadic tribes. With a special place inbetween them, roughly corresponding to the Kingdom of Jerusalem. More like holding boxes. An insane clutter of historically accurate states would make the map unplayable.

Beko the Great wrote:Asia Minor is not an Empire like the Holy Roman or Bizantine is a region which holds the most important states by the time.

Okay.

by **miniwally** on Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:01 pm

just thinking maybe it'd be better if you split asia minor up into turkey and egypt?

by **Teflon Kris** on Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:14 am

Lots of historical discussion here - the idea about about relinquishing the date and renaming as the more generic 'Age of The Crusades' would ensure you dont need to make too many changes to cover all the historical detail. Worth thinking about maybe.

The graphics are coming on - The north african area looks great now after the change. Maybe worth thinking about the bonus boxes that have been suggested - just reducing the transparency maybe?

Good work and its nice to see regular amendments

by **sailorseal** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:47 pm

So there is that shield, I think it is on Orleans but I am not sure, make it clearly on 1 territ. The legend is hard to read and very hard to tell just going by colors what bonus is for what. Make it a little clearer but keep a little of the current effect you have going. Make Jerusalem and Rome start neutral. for bonus purposes, no one likes when someone starts with a bonus. Cut Sweden in half to make it less likely that someone will start with that whole bonus.I like the dirty old parchment affect you have going and I would like to see the whole map look like it not just the legend. Also I would like to see 1 shield in each bonus group. Make the Africa bonus have a greater color distinction from southern Iberia
Very Nice Map!

by **tlane** on Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:33 pm

the one change i would make as of graphics is make the bonus colors in the legend a bit more visible, mainly on "All Iberia"

that is all i can post for now

tlane

looks great! =D>

by **captainwalrus** on Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:21 pm

The connection between sweeden and denmark could be made more clear on the small map, I didn't notice it untill I looked on the larger version.

by **thenobodies80** on Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:11 pm

Legend colors are different, probably trasparency change colors.
Anything else for me.

i think you are ready for the main foundry.

by **pamoa** on Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:22 am

Very nice map, you already did a great job!

some graphic suggestions:
I think it is very problematic the way you put the templar shield and the anchors left of the territory name, in Lorraine, Paris Normandy and in a minor way Cyprus and Malta. It would be better if it was left of the army circle or better if the army circle would be different integrating the symbol in it.
Remove the compass in the sea it is anachronistic.
I also think it would be better if you leave some space around legend boxes so they are floating inside the map frame and not being stick to it.
In the bonus legend you should remove the minus sign in front of the bonus number so it's clear you are gaining 2 armies and not that you are loosing 2 armies.
The dotted line linking islands to mainland need to be denser.
And last I think you should add a white glow to all the texts so they are more legible against your dark background.

I know it's a lot and may seems a bit aggressive but I like your map very much but I think it need a bit more graphic work to be a wonder.
Go on! =D>

And sorry if some of the remarks have already been said, it's impossible to read everything in CC...

by **thenobodies80** on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:13 pm

I suggest you to fix some routes:

Ireland -england, England - Flandres and Denmark-Sweden are only spots
I think Emirate-cordoba, tunis-sicily, cyprus-antioch and emirate-aragon look better in this way (spoiler)
You missed a connection between sicily and napoli
And finally why not add a cyprus-Al-iskandariah route and a connection between ireland and scotland?
(obviously it's only a personal opinion)

show

Hope usefull
Great Map! =D>

Thenobodies80

by **MrBenn** on Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:34 am

There hasn't been an update to this map for almost a month... Ithink this draft is almost Foundry-ready, but need assurance that the map is still being worked on?

by **Beko the Great** on Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:56 am

MrBenn wrote:There hasn't been an update to this map for almost a month... Ithink this draft is almost Foundry-ready, but need assurance that the map is still being worked on?

I've been working on this and reading all the posts and all the sugestions, but I've been having few time to work on this. I hope have a new Foundry-ready version before Easter. However with the lot of sugestions made I will have to make a lot of graphic and gameplay changes, to be discussed as well.

thenobodies80 wrote:I suggest you to fix some routes:

Ireland -england, England - Flandres and Denmark-Sweden are only spots
I think Emirate-cordoba, tunis-sicily, cyprus-antioch and emirate-aragon look better in this way (spoiler)
You missed a connection between sicily and napoli
And finally why not add a cyprus-Al-iskandariah route and a connection between ireland and scotland?
(obviously it's only a personal opinion)

show

Hope usefull
Great Map!

Thenobodies80

Thank you very much for the graphic contribution. How did you do those attack routes? I've just made mine making dots more or less on the spot. Yet I like your color and design better than mine.

Cheers!

by **Teflon Kris** on Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:30 pm

Discussion Topics

- Bonus (are they overrated?/Underrated?) - My initial reaction is that some of the regions may be too high in bonus. But I haven't analysed deeply - have you tried one of the bonus calculator tools? Maybe more of a bonus for the Jerusalem/Rome/Shield combinations and less for the regions?

- Attack Routes: Plenty of comment made already.

- More/Less Ports? I'm not sure if they are really needed for gameplay - looking at the bonuses, attacking Jerusalem isn't going to be high on priorities all the time so I'd say fine as they are, especially if that fits historically.

- More/Less Shields? They are quite well spread. Do they not carry a seperate bonus?

Other Topics People Have Brought Up
- Historical details - plenty said. I think the main thing that you may wish to look at is oak's point about the moslem strongholds.

- Clarity around which terit the shields and ports belong to.

- Opacity of the image behind the bonus box.

My guess is that to move on to the next stage you need to look at these last 3 points first, although for peace of mind, you may wish to focus on the historical points to get them out of the way?

You've got a job on your hands but a great setting and nice style so I'm sure it will all come together soon enough.

by **Beko the Great** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:28 am

Hello! So here's the new version!

Click image to enlarge.

What was changed:

Historical Accuracy:

Asia Minor is now Seljuk Turks and holds all the regions hold by Seljuk Turks before the arrival of the Crusaders,
Cyprus and Trebizond added to Byzantine Empire where they belonged by the time
Remove the compass since it's anachronistic

New gameplay features:

Jerusalem is more powerful:
Islamic Crescents: Placed in major islamic influence places, they add a new contribute to gameplay, giving Jerusalem more power;
Bonus for Rome and Jerusalem, the major cities of christianity hold now a bonus together
Rome + Jerusalem + Any Shield now worths 2 armies.
Changed some "continent" bonus;

Graphic Changes:

Legend is easier to see and understand;
Changed Luminosity a bit as "paper" patterns
"Pixelate" borders issue solved.

Feel free to discuss! 8-)

by **Aline_Cedrac** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:05 am

The map is really greater looking now and I think the changes that you made will better the gameplay on it!
I only have a suggestion (that I had already discussed with you yesterday): being Jerusalem a really important spot in this map, shouldn't it be more visible? I mean, more differentiated from the other territories, so we could see it clearly?
Think about it! Very good job! =D>

by **pamoa** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:47 am

Good job, but I think they are still some graphic changes needed...

You must change...

MINUS SIGN in front of bonus number in legend box the below example show how your current version is not very coherent

maybe as following

BOUNS
is All Iberia 4 cumulative with Iberia 3 for a total bonus of 7 ?
the same with

each

the same for Jerusalem + any crescent 1

SYMBOLS templars, anchors and crescents left of the territory name remain a problem, in Lorraine, Paris Normandy and in a minor way Cyprus and Malta.
It would be better if it was left of the army circle or better if the army circle would be different integrating the symbol in it.

I think you can change...

leave some space around legend boxes so they are floating inside the map frame and not being stick to it.

add a white glow to the texts in legend box so they are more legible against your dark background.

go on your doing good job

by **LED ZEPPELINER** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:07 am

the outer glow on the borders looks really bad

by **Ogrecrusher** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:19 am

I was going to say change the minus signs in the legend, but pamoa got there first, and in more detail. I'd turn them all to plus signs.
Also, the bottlenecks around Italy seem pretty bad gamplay wise, maybe add a connection from Sicily to Sardinia so that the southern Italy bonus is all joined together?

by **Beko the Great** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:46 pm

Ogrecrusher wrote:I was going to say change the minus signs in the legend, but pamoa got there first, and in more detail. I'd turn them all to plus signs.

Ok.
Also, the bottlenecks around Italy seem pretty bad gamplay wise, maybe add a connection from Sicily to Sardinia so that the southern Italy bonus is all joined together?[/quote]

Oh! Well seen! I'll change it!

by **miniwally** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:08 pm

i've said before get rid of the one way attacks in iberia and change british isles name as british isles doesn't included in the british isles british kingdom or something like that

by **Beko the Great** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:21 pm

Aline_Cedrac wrote:The map is really greater looking now and I think the changes that you made will better the gameplay on it!
I only have a suggestion (that I had already discussed with you yesterday): being Jerusalem a really important spot in this map, shouldn't it be more visible? I mean, more differentiated from the other territories, so we could see it clearly?
Think about it! Very good job!

I've beeen thinking about it but honestly I don't think how can I make Jerusalem more visible

by **GosoxJ** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:25 pm

Looks great, can't wait to play it.

by **Ogrecrusher** on Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Beko the Great wrote:
Aline_Cedrac wrote:The map is really greater looking now and I think the changes that you made will better the gameplay on it!
I only have a suggestion (that I had already discussed with you yesterday): being Jerusalem a really important spot in this map, shouldn't it be more visible? I mean, more differentiated from the other territories, so we could see it clearly?
Think about it! Very good job!

I've beeen thinking about it but honestly I don't think how can I make Jerusalem more visible

Ask mibi. He had thread about improving other people's maps.

by **luxCRUSADER** on Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:44 pm

Forgive me... I'm at work and didn't have the time to check through all the nine pages here... I AM DYING to know when would this map be ready- cuz it LOOKS HOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Abandoned] - Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (V7 - Pg. 1&5 Please comment!)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (V7 - Pg. 1&5 Please comment!)

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Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (V7 - Pg. 1&5 Please comment!)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (V7 - Pg. 1&5 Please comment!)

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Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (V7 - Pg. 1&5 Please comment!)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (V7 - Pg. 1&5 Please comment!)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (V7 - Pg. 1&5 Please comment!)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (V7 - Pg. 1&5 Please comment!)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (V7 - Pg. 1&5 Please comment!)

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Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (NEW VERSION! V8 - Pg. 1&8)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (NEW VERSION! V8 - Pg. 1&8)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (NEW VERSION! V8 - Pg. 1&8)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (NEW VERSION! V8 - Pg. 1&8)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (NEW VERSION! V8 - Pg. 1&8)

Re: Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade (NEW VERSION! V8 - Pg. 1&8)

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