The Citadel [Quenched]

by **oaktown** on Thu May 22, 2008 12:10 am

Poll results:

How should the Parade Deck be?
Starts neutral (6-10)
3
27%

Killer neutral (starts and resets to 3)
8
72%

Never neutral
0
No votes

Total votes : 11

by **oaktown** on Thu May 22, 2008 12:19 am

TaCktiX wrote:- Added attack routes from Business to President, Canteen to Buyer, and ROTC to Commandant (forgot to add Byrd to President, on the To Do)

New attack routes are thinner than the rest and easy to miss.

I'm still saying 'hmm' every time I look at the tower... it just doesn't seem right visually, and while it seems to border the Parade Deck it doesn't make sense why it would. The tower may require a rethink.

by **grayhawke** on Thu May 22, 2008 1:49 am

oaktown wrote:... I'm still saying 'hmm' every time I look at the tower... it just doesn't seem right visually, ...

Maybe it's the perspective?
Perhaps a "from-above" view rather than the current "side-on" view would better fit the map's visual style?

by **TaCktiX** on Thu May 22, 2008 5:31 am

I also got bit pretty hard making it wider to fit The Tower's text in (which is still smaller than every other territory). I can do a "from above" perspective, and add in the appropriate attack route in front of the battalion. That said, I will have to drop having the text on the territory directly, as the Tower is most certainly square, and not some bizarre rectangle.

by **gimil** on Thu May 22, 2008 7:07 am

gimil wrote:Trees need a drop shadow.

by **grayhawke** on Thu May 22, 2008 7:16 am

TaCktiX wrote:I also got bit pretty hard making it wider to fit The Tower's text in (which is still smaller than every other territory). I can do a "from above" perspective, and add in the appropriate attack route in front of the battalion. That said, I will have to drop having the text on the territory directly, as the Tower is most certainly square, and not some bizarre rectangle.

Maybe it might help if the text was just "Tower"?

by **Kaplowitz** on Thu May 22, 2008 3:56 pm

TaCktiX wrote:The trees fill up a lot of empty space. Now that I look at them post-update, they look awful. I'll go back to the drawing board on creating them, but they're staying. And they DO fit the theme, as there are trees in virtually the same locations in reality (I took artistic liberty with how many trees, and what color, but they really do encircle the Deck).
.

When i said they didnt fit the theme, i meant the gfx theme. Everything is so straight, and one color. The trees are blobs, and each tree has many colors. They look good, but i think they look out of place. I think you should have trees, just they should look different.

Plus gimil is right, they need shadows.

by **TaCktiX** on Thu May 22, 2008 10:53 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:When i said they didnt fit the theme, i meant the gfx theme. Everything is so straight, and one color. The trees are blobs, and each tree has many colors. They look good, but i think they look out of place. I think you should have trees, just they should look different.

I am going to disagree with you here. This map has been, from the start, an attempt to get the campus exactly "as it is". If there's a sidewalk somewhere and it looks like that on the map, you can guarantee that there is a sidewalk identical to it in reality. If a building has a parking lot next to it, there really is a parking lot there. I've had to take a little artistic license to make it look cleaner, but of late I have been adding things that are on campus that I didn't have the technical capability to do before. There are multi-colored trees around the Deck, and all over campus. They're all relatively old (50+ years) and very large. I've said before their size, number, and actual color may be inaccurate strictly speaking, but that's artistic license to keep the map fairly simple to edit (relatively). So no, they do not look out of place, they are fully in keeping with the theme I have been working on from the start.

Plus gimil is right, they need shadows.

I recraft them, they'll get drop shadows, don't worry.

grayhawke wrote:Maybe it might help if the text was just "Tower"?

Yeah, I'll do that. We refer to it on campus as "The Tower", but for readability reasons I can trim it up.

oaktown wrote:New attack routes are thinner than the rest and easy to miss.

I was burned out from doing all the other updates, so I didn't look at the size of the attack routes much. This will be fixed (I've got the space, easily).

by **InkL0sed** on Thu May 22, 2008 11:23 pm

Just a quick drop-in -- I really like the trees (and the look of the map in general).

I may actually start contributing... I've been kinda lurking this thread...

by **bryguy** on Fri May 23, 2008 7:57 am

TaCktiX wrote:
oaktown wrote:New attack routes are thinner than the rest and easy to miss.

I was burned out from doing all the other updates, so I didn't look at the size of the attack routes much. This will be fixed (I've got the space, easily).

wait, there are new attack routes? cause i cant find any.....

by **Kaplowitz** on Fri May 23, 2008 5:20 pm

Can you at least remove the texture of the trees...just to see how they look? I think that would make me happy.

I fully believe that the trees are there in real life, exactly how you drew them-- and i like the trees there. Its just they look out of place compared to the rest of the map. I want trees, but i want them to look simpler.

by **cairnswk** on Wed May 28, 2008 4:10 am

TaCktiX wrote:The trees fill up a lot of empty space. Now that I look at them post-update, they look awful. I'll go back to the drawing board on creating them, but they're staying. And they DO fit the theme, as there are trees in virtually the same locations in reality (I took artistic liberty with how many trees, and what color, but they really do encircle the Deck).

EDIT: Forgot the army placement notes. Here's the image:

I'll be editing 2nd battalion to have better-spaced borders, but I'm pretty sure if I notched an 888 test on everything, they'd be fine.

TaCktix...on assignment here to assist with graphics comments:

I think the trees are a great addition and yes they fill up real estate on the map. They could do with a little improvement with some additions of light and shade being the main points i would add.

This is looking very clean and clear, although i am a little confused in front of Jenkins Ave with the white paths all over the place there. It seems excessive and sometimes as you know less is more. I understand what you are trying to do there, but players might ask what do they mean or what are they there for.

The same with the path from President to School of Business, is that a legit attack path of just there for decoration, because it doesn't correspond to the Attack Route in the legend.

Also, is there an attack route between Kilo/Lima and Echo/Hotel, and from Romeo/Oscar to LIma/Mike, also Bryd Hall to Ducket Hall.

I think the legend could do with something special, not too much, perhaps a nice simple thin border, and is it possible to place the Avenue of Remembrance under Jenkins Ave, and re-position that instruction on the Parade Deck across the bottom of the legend in one sentence ??!

The rounded corners near McAlister Field House are a little jagged, is it possible to smooth that.

Overall though, shaping up nicely.

by **TaCktiX** on Wed May 28, 2008 2:30 pm

cairnswk wrote:I think the trees are a great addition and yes they fill up real estate on the map. They could do with a little improvement with some additions of light and shade being the main points i would add.

I think they look awful at the present time, I will be redoing them, and including shadow.

This is looking very clean and clear, although i am a little confused in front of Jenkins Ave with the white paths all over the place there. It seems excessive and sometimes as you know less is more. I understand what you are trying to do there, but players might ask what do they mean or what are they there for.

Note also that there are clear paths exiting buildings and going to the Parade Deck. The sidewalks on that side of campus are relatively intricate, and each building has a different style in front of it for whatever reason. It follows my theme and since it isn't messing up map clarity, I don't think it needs changing.

The same with the path from President to School of Business, is that a legit attack path of just there for decoration, because it doesn't correspond to the Attack Route in the legend.

Also, is there an attack route between Kilo/Lima and Echo/Hotel, and from Romeo/Oscar to LIma/Mike, also Bryd Hall to Ducket Hall.

I need to widen those attack routes (President to Business), and I will add a note of black-outlined routes also being attack routes.

I think the legend could do with something special, not too much, perhaps a nice simple thin border, and is it possible to place the Avenue of Remembrance under Jenkins Ave, and re-position that instruction on the Parade Deck across the bottom of the legend in one sentence ??!

I like that idea, so I will certainly do it.

The rounded corners near McAlister Field House are a little jagged, is it possible to smooth that.

On the To Do.

Overall though, shaping up nicely.

With a few more adjustments I think this map will be ready for the one-two punch of Gp and Gr.

by **cairnswk** on Wed May 28, 2008 3:45 pm

TaCktiX wrote:Note also that there are clear paths exiting buildings and going to the Parade Deck. The sidewalks on that side of campus are relatively intricate, and each building has a different style in front of it for whatever reason. It follows my theme and since it isn't messing up map clarity, I don't think it needs changing.

Mmmmm it is a little confusing as i have said. Perhaps lower the opacity or lessen the colour so that don't show up so much. If they are not important to gameplay, it is more important to have the attack routes most visible to avoid confusing players.

by **laci_mae** on Wed May 28, 2008 4:19 pm

I don't like the map title up in the corner. I didn't even see it the first half dozen times I looked at this version. I liked it emphasized in the middle. If you're scratching that for gameplay reasons (or whatever), it needs some emphasis like increasing the yellow glow.

The quads all seem to be sinking. I guess it would make sense that these are outdoor areas in real life. Nonetheless, the shadows are sort of confusing because until you added them I was just thinking of them as another room.

LMR

by **InkL0sed** on Wed May 28, 2008 10:10 pm

The crosswalks look like ladders. It took me a long time to realize what they were.

Maybe you should reduce their opacity or something. I'm not quite sure, but I think it's because they stick out too much.

by **TaCktiX** on Wed May 28, 2008 10:11 pm

Since the crosswalks are critical attack routes, I think it would be best to have them stand out too much.

by **InkL0sed** on Wed May 28, 2008 10:14 pm

But, but... ladders! Can't you just reduce the opacity a little bit? They'd be just as visible.

It's the only graphical issue I have.

by **TaCktiX** on Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:22 pm

Version 14

Updates:
- Smoothed up the edges of the Parade Deck
- Corrected 2nd Battalion to look the same numbers-wise as the other battalions
- Made the title bigger and more visible
- Added the 2nd Attack Route to explain things
- Made the Parade Deck note one line (leaves me space for more explanation if I need it, too!)
- Redid the trees
- Crafted a different Tower, now showing the pillars "below" the tower section
- Created some more inter-continent attack routes
- Made previously extant attack routes more obvious
- Smoothed the curving roads

Small Version (600x461)

Large Version (700x538)

Click image to enlarge.

On the large, I'm going to have to do a Cairns-style split. All the single-pixel stuff I did (borders, attack routes) gets messed up badly by the upsize. It's posted to show that it does look fine at a larger size without any hefty optimizing. I'll wait to rightfully split the map when graphics on the Small have been cleared through.

To Do:
- Make the crosswalks a little more washed out so we don't have InkL0sed's ladder problem

by **MrBenn** on Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:34 am

Two issues;

1. The parade deck doesn't actually reset when conquered... it is reset at the beginning of your following turn. It's a subtle nuance of language that I think needs to be changed, although I cannot think of anyhting at the moment.

2. The 'ladders'. Reducing the opacity will help. Could you just clarify whether they're steps or paths? If they're steps, then they need to be slightly tapered, staggered. If they're paths, you could change the style of them - maybe extend the paler pathway texture (like the one you've used outside Jenkins)?

On another note, I like your choice of colours, and the parade deck looks great - just add the couple of tweaks that Cairns suggested.

by **RjBeals** on Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:28 am

Ohhh.. I think it looks bad upsized. Could you post the real size of the most recent update?

by **gimil** on Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:44 am

I like the trees there well made, but I still don't feel they fit the theme of this map. However Ill wait and see what others feel about them.

by **TaCktiX** on Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:38 pm

Rj, refresh your browser. Sometimes the Small doesn't render (it's there).

by **cairnswk** on Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:54 pm

1. Parade Deck text could be larger.
2. i think you've gone the wrong way with the bushes...IMHO they are far too blurry now, i preferred them with some detail, the total blurry thing on the bushes doesn't fit with the rest of the map.
3. Drop "special thanks" text down a fraction.
4. and perhaps drop the continents in the legend down a bit so they are all squashing Attack Routes, the legend just needs re-spacing a bit, but it looks good now IMHO.
Great work. 8-)

by **oaktown** on Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:23 am

alright, I think I'm fine with the attack routes and the use of the quad. The comment (above) about the language of the attack routes is valid.

My only issue now is with the colors... as the Foundry's foremost authority in colorblindness some of the colors are a bit close, and while this doesn't affect my ability to tell the regions apart, I do have trouble telling the labels apart in the legend. Lee Avenue and 4th battalion are too similar, as are 2nd and Support, as are Jenkins and 3rd. Again, I can tell the actual regions apart, I just can't be sure of which region is which. This will require one of the following: 1) some kind of identification on the map itself (which is unwieldy I know); 2) changes to the color, or; 3) alterations to how you've laid out the legend. Since the legend is less than visually stunning to begin with I would suggest going with the third solution.

I haven't really examined the bonuses too very closely... I was about to when I noticed the color concern.

The Citadel [Quenched]

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V12 (Pg1+13) [I] Parade Deck Poll 5/22/08 End

Re: The Citadel V12 (Pg1+13) [I] Parade Deck Poll 5/22/08 End

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I]

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I]

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I]

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I]

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I]

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I]

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I]

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V13 (Pg1+14) [I] 21-May-08 Update

Re: The Citadel V14 (Pg1+15) [I] 6/2/08 Small + Large

Re: The Citadel V14 (Pg1+15) [I] 6/2/08 Small + Large

Re: The Citadel V14 (Pg1+15) [I] 6/2/08 Small + Large

Re: The Citadel V14 (Pg1+15) [I] 6/2/08 Small + Large

Re: The Citadel V14 (Pg1+15) [I] 6/2/08 Small + Large

Re: The Citadel V14 (Pg1+15) [I] 6/2/08 Small + Large

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