New York City [Quenched]

by **Keredrex** on Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:00 pm

technically You divided the bronx wrong.... South bronx should incorporate Castle Hill...and Riverdale Is more "north Bronx" than anything

Other wise its a nice lookin map

by **snapdoodle** on Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:05 pm

Hi all,

Here is a new image. We've taken all the feedback we've gotten into consideration and started adjusting the map. We didn't have time to finish everything or address all issues yet.

Here's a list of what we've done:

-lowered the white on the army shadows except for the train stations.
-adjusted color and shape of legend and repositioned mini-map.
-added jersey and long island and upstate to map.
-adjusted the bronx so the small map will be less cramped.
-adjusted train lines to avoid distorting territory names.
-added one territory in manhattan and one territory in the bronx.
-added bridge between the bronx and queens.

Is the border thickness ok now guys?

We're thinking of increasing the thickness on the continents.

We're also debating including liberty island, governor's island, and ellis island and giving them a small bonus. They would be connected to the Financial District territory via ferries. This might help balance downtown manhattan a bit. Let us know what you all think.

We're trying to figure out a different name for SoBro and we're open to suggestions.

Can I ask which territory lines in particular seem edgy? Some of the original divisions are sharp because of how the streets are laid out. Is this a matter of consistency?

We're not too sure about making terits out of bridges. If we did one we ought to do all and there isn't enough space.

by **edbeard** on Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:11 pm

is there going to be a bonus for holding a whole train line?

you're not including the train lines in the region bonuses are you? (I hope not)

This might not be an issue when/if you upgrade the graphics, but the colour of the parks seems to be way too close to the colour of the water. It makes it look like there are lakes in the land instead of looking like a park.

by **cairnswk** on Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:31 pm

snapdoodle wrote:
Here's a list of what we've done:

-lowered the white on the army shadows except for the train stations.
-adjusted color and shape of legend and repositioned mini-map.
-added jersey and long island and upstate to map.
-adjusted the bronx so the small map will be less cramped.
-adjusted train lines to avoid distorting territory names.
-added one territory in manhattan and one territory in the bronx.
-added bridge between the bronx and queens.

All good from me.

Is the border thickness ok now guys?

Yes. you might want to give it a gaussian blur of .5...see how that looks.

We're thinking of increasing the thickness on the continents.

Kewl.

We're also debating including liberty island, governor's island, and ellis island and giving them a small bonus. They would be connected to the Financial District territory via ferries. This might help balance downtown manhattan a bit. Let us know what you all think.

Could be a go, but leave it up to you....remember some things i say are only suggestions.

Can I ask which territory lines in particular seem edgy? Some of the original divisions are sharp because of how the streets are laid out. Is this a matter of consistency?

Edgy because of street layout isn't an issue, it's edgy where the lines themselves are actually inconsistent thicknesses etc....that is an issue and you seem to have addressed that.

One thing i would look at doing with the legend...cut the bottom right corner of the gray map area and have it run along the Jersey shoreline...this is a very sharp corner that is digging and distracting the eye...and it would flow much better running along that shorline....design issue thingy!

by **snapdoodle** on Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:35 am

edbeard wrote:is there going to be a bonus for holding a whole train line?

you're not including the train lines in the region bonuses are you? (I hope not)

This might not be an issue when/if you upgrade the graphics, but the colour of the parks seems to be way too close to the colour of the water. It makes it look like there are lakes in the land instead of looking like a park.

no the stations are not part of the bonuses. i guess that should be clearer in the legend.

and your issue with the parks' color is exactly what benny said to me today while we were updating! we'll change it or the color of the water.

i'm not sure if we're taking this job into photoshop or not. i don't think we are since we're kind of happy with the 2D view here.

by **snapdoodle** on Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:41 am

cairnswk wrote:Could be a go, but leave it up to you....remember some things i say are only suggestions.

it's a great suggestion and it might lessen the imbalance of downtown manhattan.

cairnswk wrote:Edgy because of street layout isn't an issue, it's edgy where the lines themselves are actually inconsistent thicknesses etc....that is an issue and you seem to have addressed that.

awesome. cool.

cairnswk wrote:One thing i would look at doing with the legend...cut the bottom right corner of the gray map area and have it run along the Jersey shoreline...this is a very sharp corner that is digging and distracting the eye...and it would flow much better running along that shorline....design issue thingy!

you're totally right. i wonder if the gray frame is even necessary at all. we'll play around with it.

by **Incandenza** on Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:54 am

This map is definitely looking good...

You might want to move the midtown and flushing subway stops away from borders, to ensure that people don't think that said territories can attack adjacent territories... especially the midtown stop, which kinda looks like it borders the upper east side.

by **edbeard** on Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:02 am

snapdoodle wrote:no the stations are not part of the bonuses. i guess that should be clearer in the legend.

that's the type of question people will ask when they play on the map for the first time.

Also, you didn't quite answer my question. Are you going to have bonuses for holding an entire rail line? Maybe that's too many bonuses, but it deserves some thought at least.

by **sarahBObarah** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:26 am

sweet map

by **AndyDufresne** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:06 pm

Nice to see another new cartographer in the Foundry! This map looks like it has some potential. I remember the first New York City map was tried...it ended up being more a disaster than a map. Good luck!

--Andy

by **InkL0sed** on Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:14 pm

Not to be too nitpicky... but is the bridge between Manhattan and Queens supposed to be the Queensboro Bridge? If so, it's too north. It should probably connect between Astoria and Midtown, if you want to be accurate.

On another note, I think some of the bonuses are a little iffy.

by **Tense** on Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:11 am

Neat map!

I think the only thing left missing is a picture of something that makes you really say its New York - the statue of liberty.

For instance only having the arm and the fire visible bearly in the background. Next to the legend or elsewhere.

Perhaps the skyline faded in the bottom.

by **tim02** on Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:37 pm

wow great start

keep it going, like the idea with the overlaping continents.

by **InkL0sed** on Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:43 pm

Just to bump up this thread, I've decided to post what I sent snapdoodle in a PM, in explaining my "iffy bonus" comment.

Well for example, Uptown Manhattan has only 4 border territories and 5 territories altogether, but you give it a +6 bonus? That should be more like a +4 bonus. Downtown Manhattan has only one more territory, and the same amount of border territories, but it has a +7. It should be more like +4 or +5. I understand you want to make holding Manhattan an important bonus, but you could simply give an extra bonus for holding it all, as you've already done.

Also, if Staten Island has a +3 with 2 border territories, why does Pelham also have a +3 bonus with 3 borders and the same number of territories overall?

In general, I think the rule is pretty much the bonus = number of border territories, give or take one or two considering the number of territories it has. This is of course just my opinion. You may be able to justify your bonuses, in which case they're fine by me.

by **snapdoodle** on Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:35 pm

Large

Small

Hi all,

Another Friday update.

Today we did:
-Adjusted colors of Parks, Water, Inner Queens, and North Brooklyn
-Adjusted station locations away from borders
-Removed gray legend box
-Posted Small map
-Adjusted bridges between Midtown and Astoria, and JFK and Rockaway Beach

To do:
-Rename SoBro (South Bronx) to ?
-Redo Train lines to clean them up
-Adjust bonuses (we invite opinions)
-Brace ourselves for small map criticism!

Thanks for everyone's patience and feedback.

-snap & benny

by **Coleman** on Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:45 pm

Thanks for the updates in the post with the to-do. You need to keep the first post with the latest picture and some information (looks like you already have the latest picture)...

(last update on pg x) in the topic title. You'll see all the Map Foundry topics do this.

In the first post you need the number of territories and continents spelled out.

Like this:
Territories: #
Continents: #

This might seem pointless to you right now, but it helps people follow what you are doing easier.

This is really great work, do all that and I think you're near movable.

by **Ogrecrusher** on Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:36 pm

I prefer water that looks like water. Or maybe New York water is that colour ;D

by **benny profane** on Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:30 pm

coleman - thanks a lot man, we'll get on it.

ogrecrusher - there's a reason that people here go to the ymca to swim!
i see what you're saying, maybe you like the water color on the page 4 map better? we've been tooling around with the colors a lot, and we both kinda liked the atmosphere this new color added to the map. but nothing is definitive yet.

does anyone else take issue with this new water color?

thanks again everyone for helping!

by **gimil** on Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:44 pm

This is the most successful attempt at new york ive seen. Once you get out of this hell hole that is ideas (no offence coleman

) then ill start on some feeback.

by **Unit_2** on Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:05 pm

i would also think about naming the parks with small text.

by **DublinDoogey** on Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:52 am

If adjusting bonuses it might make sense to have Manahattan higher than Brooklyn, or for them to at least be equal. I'm new to the New York area (college) so I don't know the history extremely well, but it just seems that in the grand scheme of New York, Manhattan is the most valuable borough and that should be reflected in the gameplay.

by **benny profane** on Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:58 pm

unit_2 - snap has wanted to name the parks, and i'm not totally against it. my concern is that it will be too cramped on the small map, and that some players may mistakenly think they are territories.
but, we'll see how it looks!

dublindoogey - the bonuses definitely need an overhaul. wm's bonus calculator doesn't really help us, because the trains throw the whole thing off. one option is assigning bonuses that don't regard the trains...but that may not be the wisest choice. as for the bonus reflecting the prominence of the continent, i've been viewing the map like this:
compared to classic, brooklyn is like asia, and manhattan is like europe.
if that makes any sense.
manhattan is really the smallest borough, we've just enlarged it.
also, at the moment, it may be the hardest to hold, so more bonuses may be in order.

by **fireedud** on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:11 pm

I think the trains should have a bonus, even a small one.

by **Keredrex** on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:46 pm

Map Looks great But Riverdale is no where near part of the South Bronx
You should swap the colors of Riverdale and Castle Hill
or Make SoBro - West Bronx and Pelham East Bronx

Sorry but as a fan of the club and of the foundry, and born and raised in the bronx... I think we should have as much accuracy as possible

by **Coleman** on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:57 pm

I think your priority needs to be getting out of Map Ideas, as this map is far enough to warrant it. Just do what I said last post and then worry about the rest of the suggestions when you are out of here.

New York City [Quenched]

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