Soaps Role Madness 2! Town wins!

by **Ragian** on Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:16 pm

Give us a couple of days at least, man. What kind of sonic like modding is that?

by **DirtyDishSoap** on Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:41 pm

Uh! Error! I meant the 25th. Good God.

by **Extreme Ways** on Mon Nov 18, 2024 8:20 pm

I have submitted a (preliminary) action to prosecute Kong tonight.

I think Kong is town, but with the worked out plan the only way I think we lose this if is Kong is scum with a role that I am not thinking of that allows scum to win regardless of the plan.

by **Ragian** on Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:00 am

Okay, so...right. Would your night action work best if you target scum? If so, why have you chosen kong preliminarily if you think he's town?

by **Extreme Ways** on Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:54 am

Ragian wrote:Okay, so...right. Would your night action work best if you target scum? If so, why have you chosen kong preliminarily if you think he's town?

Because according to Kong and mine's plan, if Max selected someone not in
me
jack
dev
[the one i am trialing]
we should always win regardless of the order in which we kill

by **Extreme Ways** on Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:54 am

and if max is scum i think that still works even though i think it's just max and charle atm

by **kongming3** on Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:02 pm

It does actually matter though EW, for if Max selected Charle or if he selected you or Loose. I hadn't thought about this earlier because I hadn't fully puzzled out the charle oracle scum scenario, but max seeing charle as scum is functionally as useless as him finding you or Loose as town (because we win regardless if charle is town.) So while the order doesn't matter when Max is scum or if he picked me/rag/dev (dev is not in the same category as you and Loose), it does matter if he picked any of the useless targets in you/Loose/Charle/vot/traf/fusi?(not sure if he was a viable target still).

Three possibilities for Max to pick out of 8 or so isn't actually that good for our guaranteed win just kill recklessly scenarios. I'm really thinking now that Charle should be the default pick (because again, he's the most always should be killed at night player because the possibilities are killing scum or winning the game.) Killing me with Jack is still a fine thing to do if oracle result is on me/rag/dev, but if it's not we should only be night killing charle and saving Jack power. Charle is presumably scum, leaving us with five people (and we win if he's town). We lynch one of rag or dev leaving us with 4 (not lethal range for mafia), and then Loose and I both protect one of Loose and EW that night. Scum has to target me and you vote out the last other person, or they get blocked and you can vote me out first if you like then Jack kill the other at night and we win. If on that night when we have four people scum magically gets a kill through a claimed protection from me, we still have three the next day and you'd be able to lynch me for the win. I get that it might not matter, but there are a lot of scenarios where it otherwise unavoidably comes down to an effectively 50/50 final vote for town to win so I really do think it should be Charle on trial.

by **Extreme Ways** on Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:12 pm

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding something but.

Charle's phantom ability I think doesn't proc through prosecutor? If it does, then yeah Charle should always be the one on trial as he can redirect the kill onto you/rag (and announce so during the trial)

by **kongming3** on Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:38 pm

Phantom "Can survive one attempt at being killed per game."

Prosecutor "Other players will act as the jury and anonymously vote whether the prosecuted player is innocent or guilty...

guilty players will be visited and killed by the Prosecutor."

There is a trial still and everyone gets to vote, but the descriptions reads to me that at the end of it all you attempt to kill the person we judge to be guilty. I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work.

by **Loose Canon** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:35 am

What will you want me to do tonight in this plan?

And do you want to lynch today - if so who?

by **Extreme Ways** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 7:50 am

Loose Canon wrote:What will you want me to do tonight in this plan?

And do you want to lynch today - if so who?

Lynch Max - ideally after he claimed something but ultimately it does not matter.
Max reveals a role. If Max reveals a scum role, always kill the scum role.

Charle should decide his kill off of your kill, so you should announce who you are killing beforehand. One of Rag/Kong is the way to go iirc.

by **Loose Canon** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 8:01 am

Ok I'll go with it

vote max

by **Ragian** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:29 am

This is so planned out. There's got to be something missing here.

I'm way more iffy with kong that I am with EW, though, but if the two of the are working in tandem, we're being duped. I just don't have the mental capacity to figure it out.

@EW, would you want me to claim? @Loose, would you? @Dev?

by **Extreme Ways** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:57 am

I still think a massclaim is best, yes.

I also dont think it really matters. I have since realised theres a role that kills the last voter when we lynch scum but if max is scum im still happy

by **Loose Canon** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:07 pm

Ragian wrote:This is so planned out. There's got to be something missing here.

I'm way more iffy with kong that I am with EW, though, but if the two of the are working in tandem, we're being duped. I just don't have the mental capacity to figure it out.

@EW, would you want me to claim? @Loose, would you? @Dev?

I too am very iffy on Kong.

The reason I'm too like you am not (quite) so iffy on EW is he went early on his I have nothing to say re N1.

But the reason I think they could be in cahoots is nobody as far as I can see has tried to derail this, - not really - and I'd have thought scum would have tried to have a go.

I'm still a weak knee'd lilly livered waverer on all of this.

by **SoN!c** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:14 pm

Ragian wrote:Give us a couple of days at least, man. What kind of sonic like modding is that?

What?? I can't hear you? O:

SFP fgs yfi

by **kongming3** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:23 pm

To be honest Loose, I think scum is likely to be found in at minimum one of Max and Charle and I wouldn't be surprised if they've just half given up. I will also say Loose that you should not be using Jack kill unless it reveals someone other than Charle as scum. What Charle might say he's doing at trial doesn't matter because if he's telling the truth and is town we'll have three confirmed townsfolk in him you and EW and two unknowns alive in me/rag/dev. You will have saved your Jack shot and town will also be able to lynch and so you just win that night by killing the remaining unknowns. If he's lying, you also don't want to waste your Jack shot early needlessly and potentially throw the game. We went over this a few times before but there will be two confirmed towns in you EW and at most one scum left. A lynch tomorrow, double protection during the night to prevent you or EW dying, and a lynch/Jack kill to finish things off. There is a possibility of something slightly wonky happening from a weird scum role, but this is the most stable way to do things that all but ensures a town win.

by **Devante** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:20 pm

Ragian wrote:This is so planned out. There's got to be something missing here.

I'm way more iffy with kong that I am with EW, though, but if the two of the are working in tandem, we're being duped. I just don't have the mental capacity to figure it out.

@EW, would you want me to claim? @Loose, would you? @Dev?

After catching up this is where I'm hesitant too. It's so well planned out that we all just need to follow along and that might simply be great scum play or might be correct, don't know. For now I'm still sus on Kong, I thought he wasn't much of a player and newer to this but here he seems to be posting as an expert. EW always a concern, if town great asset and can lead a plan like this if scum can easily do it and seem like town. I don't think a mass claim at this point makes sense since your just giving scum all the info but that's just my thought.

As for max I'm fine with that vote. If he's role is correct well scum will just avoid him now and if it's a lie then obviously was just cover.

EW, I still don't get the switch to kong prosecution. If your both in cahoots then it could be a set-up to lie, if not then why not target one of the other unknowns

by **Loose Canon** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 4:46 pm

we have 7 players left - maybe 5 town 2 scum - maybe not

town has lost a cop and I'm jack - where is the balancing scum power at outset for that - there has to be some - surely?
we haven't seen or experienced any scum power yet.
it may be either more scum - or serious powers that will derail any plan.

we - myself included - am or was virtually sold on the plan - there must be a flaw in the plan.

perhaps we go back to lynch all liers - Kong - thats where my head is going for me right now.

unvote max

by **kongming3** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 6:12 pm

Look, at a certain point you're just going to have to use your own critical thinking skills because I've done my due diligence and beyond for town at this point and answered any reasonable doubts you might have had.

Is it very likely there is a town protective role in this setup? Yes. Am I that town protective role (and nobody is even contesting me on this)? Yes. Is it still possible I could be scum? Sure, fine that's never once been in question.

Could EW and I be in cahoots? Yes, in fact I'd say it's very likely we're cooperating together. Is EW quite literally about to be game mechanically cleared as town? Also yes, and I don't even think that can be roleblocked because the trial is started from a day action.

Are you required to believe I must 100% be town? No, I've in fact been advocating for me and the others in my situation to be killed just to guarantee that the last people standing will always be you and EW. Are you required to believe you (Loose) are town? Yes.

Does the plan make sense? Yes, you yourself have said as much. Are you required to trust in the night actions of anyone other than yourself and the game confirmed trial prosecutor in EW? No. Have scum tried to express doubt? Yes, you, ragian, charle, max, dev, and even EW have all tried to criticize it at points (though once again I beg any one of you to share a flaw beyond that it makes "too" much sense.)

I won't bother to go over why Max should be lynched because if you can't do me the courtesy of reading or thinking about why it makes sense then I don't know what to tell you at this point.

Vote Max

by **DirtyDishSoap** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 6:33 pm

Vote Count!

(2) Kong - Max, Charle
(1) Max - Kong

With 7 alive, it takes 4 for a lynch!

by **Extreme Ways** on Wed Nov 20, 2024 7:45 pm

Loose should announce whom they are killing between Rag and Kong.

If Max is town and reveals a scum, Loose kills the scum.
If Max is town and reveals a town, Loose stays the course.
If Max is scum he doesnt reveal someone, Loose stays the course.

If Max is <> and I trial Charle and Charle is town, Charle selects the other in Rag/Kong.
If Max is <> and I trial Charle and Charle is scum, Charle just dies.

For the above Max's alignment doesnt really matter, as long as Charle and Loose dont target the same person.

by **Charle** on Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:22 am

Really sorry guys, I know this is not my usual, but I am extremely busy at work right now with a project that might be life changing. Will read all over the weekend and catch up.