[Discussion] Clan League Awards

by **MTIceman41** on Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:27 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
Georgerx7di wrote:Perhaps the clans that make the playoffs could vote for the mvp in their clan. Then one member of each clan making the playoffs could get an award. Or you could just give it to the "war minister" or whatever people are calling the guy who organizes teams, for each clan that wins a division. Just some thoughts.

Same clans use multiple people to organize things...

Here is what I think

Clan that wins... All who played get an award

Best Doubles record from a player

Best Triples Record from a player

Best Quads Record from a player

Best Overall Record - 1 or 2 from Each Division

Then honorable mention(up to 3 people) as voted on by jp and marv or voted on by the clans?

I like it...honorable mention maybe include individuals who have highest % of their teams wins'

by **waseemalim** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:05 pm

So are we still getting any medals for these? I might be in the running for some. Hopefully, we don't factor in the playoffs here.

by **jpcloet** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:11 pm

Right now it is only the All-Stars and overall top player being named. Not sure about medals as they were not approved.

Last I checked (about a week or 2 ago) there are 4 strong candidates for top player in Div1. 2 are Nemesis, 1 IA, and 1 TSM.

Most of the Div 2 all-stars appear to be coming from TOFU lol. The whole team won't be TOFU though as there is a strong AOC and SOW player in the running there.

by **Bruceswar** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:12 pm

jpcloet wrote:Right now it is only the All-Stars and overall top player being named. Not sure about medals as they were not approved.

Last I checked (about a week or 2 ago) there are 4 strong candidates for top player in Div1. 2 are Nemesis, 1 IA, and 1 TSM.

Most of the Div 2 all-stars appear to be coming from TOFU lol. The whole team won't be TOFU though as there is a strong AOC and SOW player in the running there.

You are forgetting Wase who is from LoW, and is best record overall.

by **jpcloet** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:39 pm

Not forgetting, looks like things have changed since I last looked several weeks ago. Wasy is definitely one of the tops it appears. Waiting for the end of the season to go through the data.

by **Chariot of Fire** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:13 pm

waseemalim wrote:I do not think division 2 should get awards, or at the very least not the same type of awards. A 90% win rate in Div 1 is much better than a 95% in Div 2.

Why this is very magnanimous of you Wase, thanks a lot. We weren't admitted to Div.1 from the outset so were scuppered with that misfortune, yet don't think for one minute it didn't take the same degree of commitment, organisation and tactical nous to set-up and win games in Div.2 as it would have done had we been a division higher.

Although coming under the umbrella of 'CLA' these divisions were run autonomously, like two separate tournaments, and as such there deserves to be some recognition for the teams and players from both leagues.

by **Chariot of Fire** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:20 pm

JP...for your info. Disseminate from this what you will, but someone deserves a pat on the back at least. Going undefeated in every head-to-head in an abbreviated eight game format is no small feat irregardless of the opposition. Thanks

Week 2 - Away to The Last Warriors
D1 Game 5586317 WWII Gazala - FR C S - CoF/Shabs WIN
D2 Game 5586323 AoR2 - NS C F - JP/Jake WIN
D3 Game 5586325 Iberia - NS C S - Daryth/Tim WIN
D4 Game 5586327 City Mogul - FR C F - Bro/Velve WIN
T1 Game 5586332 Caribbean Islands - NS C S - Shabs/Daryth/Dako WIN
T2 Game 5586336 Egypt Lower - NS C S - Knight/CB71/Kiwi WIN
Q1 Game 5586337 Cairns Coral - NS C S - Knight/Dako/CoF/CB71 WIN
Q2 Game 5586338 Siege! FR C F - Velve/Bro/Ara/Bucky WIN

Week 4 - Home to Outlaws & Highwaymen
D1 Game 5659620 Australia - NS C F - Velve & Bro WIN
D2 Game 5659622 Battle for Iraq - NS A S - Dako & CB (for Buckman) WIN
D3 Game 5659624 Tamriel - NS C S - Knight & Timmy WIN
D4 Game 5659627 Draknor - NS C S - CoF & CB WIN
T1 Game 5659632 Europe - NS C F - Velve, Bro & Ara WIN
T2 Game 5659638 Feudal - E C F - CoF, Jake & Shatman LOSS
Q1 Game 5659649 Ardennes - NS C F - Dako, CoF, Daryth & Japes WIN
Q2 Game 5659651 Age of Merchants - NS C S - CoF, Kiwi, Shatman & Timmy WIN

Week 6 - Home to Eternal Empire
D1 Game 5733692 VotK NS C F - CoF & Kiwi LOSS
D2 Game 5733696 CCU NS C F - Velve & Bro WIN
D3 Game 5733699 France NS C S - CB & Knight WIN
D4 Game 5733703 Arctic E C S - Tim & Tyche WIN
T1 Game 5733705 Sydney Metro NS C F - CoF, Tyche & Iron Maid LOSS
T2 Game 5733708 Ireland E C S - Knight, Dako & Jake WIN
Q1 Game 5733711 Charleston NS C F - Velve, Bro, Ara & Jake WIN
Q2 Game 5733713 Pearl Harbor NS C S - Knight, Dako, SB, Japes WIN

Week 8 - Away to Brethren of the Fat Mermaid
D1 Game 5815338 Bro & Velve WIN
D2 Game 5815340 CB & Knight WIN
D3 Game 5815342 IM & Tyche WIN
D4 Game 5815343 Dako & Tim WIN
T1 Game 5815344 Velve, Bro & Aradhus LOSS
T2 Game 5815345 CoF, Tim & SB LOSS
Q1 Game 5815346 CoF, SB, JP, Kiwi WIN
Q2 Game 5815347 Jake, JP, Dako & CB WIN

Week 11 - Away to Divine Domination
D1 Game 5939590 Duck & Cover - Dako, JP WIN
D2 Game 5939592 Holy Roman - Bro, Velve WIN
D3 Game 5939594 KotM - Tim, IM WIN
D4 Game 5939598 Galapagos - Zep, CoF WIN
T1 Game 5939599 Siege! - Buckman, CB71, Knight WIN
T2 Game 5939600 EGW - Velve, Bro, Aradhus LOSS
Q1 Game 5939603 Poison Rome - Dako, Jake, IM, Tyche WIN
Q2 Game 5939604 Montreal - JP, SB, CoF, Knight WIN

Week 13 - Home to The Dark Nits of Chaos
D1 Game 6023324 - Alex's Empire - Velve & Bro - NS C F WIN
D2 Game 6023329 - Battle for Iraq - Dako & Zepman - NS A S WIN
D3 Game 6023332 - Benelux - SB & JP - E C S WIN
D4 Game 6023334 - Poker Club - IM & Buckman NS C F LOSS
T1 Game 6023336 - Europe - Velve, Bro & Ara - NS C F LOSS
T2 Game 6023337 - Supermax - CoF, Zep & Dako - NS C F WIN BY DEFAULT
Q1 Game 6023339 - NYC - Knight, Tim, IM & Buckman - NS C S WIN
Q2 Game 6023340 - Waterloo - CoF, SB, JP & Jake - NS C F WIN BY DEFAULT

Week 15 - Home to The Last Warriors
D1 Game 6116833 Velve/Bro LOST
D2 Game 6116834 CoF/Kiwi LOST
D3 Game 6116836 Jake/JP WON
D4 Game 6116838 Jake/IM WON
T1 Game 6116839 WIN BY DEFAULT
T2 Game 6116841 CoF/IM/SB WON
Q1 Game 6116843 Tim/Buck/Knight/Dako WON
Q2 Game 6116844 CoF/Dako/Jake/JP WON

Week 19 - Away to O & H
D1 Game 6252463 Zepman/Trapyoung WON
D2 Game 6252464 IM/Tyche WON
D3 Game 6252466 Tim/Jake LOST
D4 Game 6252467 CoF/SB WON
T1 Game 6252469 Velve/Bro/Ara WON
T2 Game 6252471 Jake/Tyche/Tim WON
Q1 Game 6252475 Tyche/Tim/JP/Trapyoung WON
Q2 Game 6252476 Zep/CoF/SB/Dako WON

Week 21 - Away to Eternal Empire
D1 Game 6347049 Alexander's KNIGHT & ARA LOST
D2 Game 6347051 Random SB & TYCHE WON
D3 Game 6347052 Conqman TIM & DAKO WON
D4 Game 6347053 Poison Rome IM & JAKE WON
T5 Game 6347056 Poison Rome IM, JAKE & CoF LOST
T6 Game 6348832 WW2 W.Europe IM, CORY & JP WON
Q7 Game 6348836 Classic KNIGHT, DAKO, TIM & ZEP WON
Q8 Game 6347062 Africa SB, JP, CORY & TYCHE WON

Week 23 - Home to Brethren of the Fat Mermaid
D1 - Game 6424062 Poker, NS U F (Barry & Cory)
D2 - Game 6424074 Austerlitz, NS A F (Jako & Dako)
D3 - Game 6424076 Australia, NS C F (Velve & Bro)
D4 - Game 6424079 USApocalypse, NS A S (CoF & Tim)
T1 - Game 6424080 Siege!, NS C S (Knight, Tyche & Brendan)
T2 - Game 6424081 Holy Roman Empire, NS C F (Jake, JP & Tom) win by default
Q1 - Game 6424084 Eastern Hemisphere, E C S (CoF, Cory, Barry & Tyche)
Q2 - Game 6424086 Supermax, NS A F (Zep, CoF, Dako & Tim)

Week 25
bye

Week 27 - Home to Divine Domination
D1 Game 6601337 Pedro & Stringy win
D2 Game 6601338 SB & Tyche win
D3 Game 6601339 Cory & Barry win
D4 Game 6601341 Velve & Bro win
T1 Game 6601342 Jake, JP & Tom win
T2 Game 6601343 CoF, Brendan & Kiwi lose
Q1 Game 6601344 Pedro, Bro, Tim & Jake win
Q2 Game 6601345 Tyche, Tim, Stringy & Zep lose

by **Chariot of Fire** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:37 am

Footnote - Dako stands at 19-0 for the season. You can't tell me that doesn't warrant a medal.

by **Bruceswar** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:16 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:Footnote - Dako stands at 19-0 for the season. You can't tell me that doesn't warrant a medal.

Let me be the first to say what TOFU has done in D2 has been amazing. I surely would have liked to have seen what you guys would have done in D1. Anyhow I do think Dako and others from TOFU or any of D2 who shined should be in line for a medal. Besides looks like these will not be official medals.

by **waseemalim** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:02 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:
waseemalim wrote:I do not think division 2 should get awards, or at the very least not the same type of awards. A 90% win rate in Div 1 is much better than a 95% in Div 2.

Why this is very magnanimous of you Wase, thanks a lot. We weren't admitted to Div.1 from the outset so were scuppered with that misfortune, yet don't think for one minute it didn't take the same degree of commitment, organisation and tactical nous to set-up and win games in Div.2 as it would have done had we been a division higher.

Although coming under the umbrella of 'CLA' these divisions were run autonomously, like two separate tournaments, and as such there deserves to be some recognition for the teams and players from both leagues.

See arguing with you on this puts me on a very delicate situation. Given LoW and my luck in D1, it would seem that I am belittling the achievement of others to make ours seem better. That is not the case, I assure you -- and I hope that my comments would be considered objective as I made those long before the fate of LoW in this league was decided.

So rabbiton has a 11-0 from Div1 and he has played the toughest matches around. Dako has a 19-0 from Div 2. Both superb achievements, but do they deserve the same honor? I think not. Yes, indeed Dako has the longer streak, but that is against weaker opponents and I am willing to bet that rabbit could get the same streak if not better if he played in as many games.

There are quite a few others in the clan who have streaks of 10, I think demy is at 12-2. Could demy have gotten a streak of 19-0 in Div 2, I think absolutely yes. But does he deserve a medal, probably not.

But the point is not that. The point is these two achievements shouldn't even be compared in the first place.

You really need to call out these medals for what they are. The best player in the Welsh League can not be compared to the best player in the Premier League (and hence shouldnt get the same award or recognition). And mind you, TOFU had the opportunity to join Division 1 in place of Nemesis...

by **Chariot of Fire** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:25 am

waseemalim wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:
waseemalim wrote:I do not think division 2 should get awards, or at the very least not the same type of awards. A 90% win rate in Div 1 is much better than a 95% in Div 2.

Why this is very magnanimous of you Wase, thanks a lot. We weren't admitted to Div.1 from the outset so were scuppered with that misfortune, yet don't think for one minute it didn't take the same degree of commitment, organisation and tactical nous to set-up and win games in Div.2 as it would have done had we been a division higher.

Although coming under the umbrella of 'CLA' these divisions were run autonomously, like two separate tournaments, and as such there deserves to be some recognition for the teams and players from both leagues.

See arguing with you on this puts me on a very delicate situation. Given LoW and my luck in D1, it would seem that I am belittling the achievement of others to make ours seem better. That is not the case, I assure you -- and I hope that my comments would be considered objective as I made those long before the fate of LoW in this league was decided.

So rabbiton has a 11-0 from Div1 and he has played the toughest matches around. Dako has a 19-0 from Div 2. Both superb achievements, but do they deserve the same honor? I think not. Yes, indeed Dako has the longer streak, but that is against weaker opponents and I am willing to bet that rabbit could get the same streak if not better if he played in as many games.

There are quite a few others in the clan who have streaks of 10, I think demy is at 12-2. Could demy have gotten a streak of 19-0 in Div 2, I think absolutely yes. But does he deserve a medal, probably not.

But the point is not that. The point is these two achievements shouldn't even be compared in the first place.

You really need to call out these medals for what they are. The best player in the Welsh League can not be compared to the best player in the Premier League (and hence shouldnt get the same award or recognition). And mind you, TOFU had the opportunity to join Division 1 in place of Nemesis...

See arguing with you on this puts me on a very delicate situation

There is no argument unless you adhere to your principle that no medals should be awarded to anyone in Div2. Frankly I'd ask what business is it of yours to make such a statement?

Given LoW and my luck in D1, it would seem that I am belittling the achievement of others to make ours seem better.

Why not simply give credit where credit's due?

So rabbiton has a 11-0 from Div1 and he has played the toughest matches around. Dako has a 19-0 from Div 2. Both superb achievements, but do they deserve the same honor? I think not.

So why not only propose a different category of medal, rather than the inflammatory remark "I do not think division 2 should get awards"

Yes, indeed Dako has the longer streak, but that is against weaker opponents and I am willing to bet that rabbit could get the same streak if not better if he played in as many games.

Weaker opponents eh? Do you not consider that maybe a lot of the clans in Div.2 were not eligible for Div.1 purely on the basis of not having met certain criteria (length of time as a clan and having completed a certain quota of clan wars). Are these 'weaker clans' that you talk of such outfits as BFM and O&H (both in our division) and who just handed LoW a 23-13 defeat? Makes mockery of your argument right there!

But the point is not that. The point is these two achievements shouldn't even be compared in the first place.

I agree. So, you mind your business in Div.1 and we (in Div.2) will speak and fight on our own behalves thank you very much.

And mind you, TOFU had the opportunity to join Division 1 in place of Nemesis

What the heck has this got to do with the subject? You know full well what the story was behind that - so are you now insinuating that we should have replaced Nemesis and that they weren't (equally as) deserving of a place in Div.1?

Frankly waseem you want to put a sock in it and not interfere in matters that don't concern you, nor should you belittle the achievements of players (irrespective of their division), and lastly not demean the calibre of clans in Div.2 who only recently took 64% of the games against you in a clan war.

by **jpcloet** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:29 am

jpcloet wrote:Like any good league there are awards at the end of the Season. I've already indicated that we will be doing a Div1 and Div2 All-Star Teams.

From the first post. Top player will only be from Div1.

Maybe this conversation might lead to an actual All-Star Week matchup.

by **waseemalim** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:26 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:
Frankly waseem you want to put a sock in it and not interfere in matters that don't concern you, nor should you belittle the achievements of players (irrespective of their division), and lastly not demean the calibre of clans in Div.2 who only recently took 64% of the games against you in a clan war.

No I am not going to put a sock on it. I have a right to an opinion and I have the right to state it. I am not asking you to shut up, so why should you?

I am also not demeaning the calibre or the potential of D2 -- I am just stating that in my opinion (and I believe in the opinion of most) D1 is better/tougher than D2. Feel free to disagree with that -- but state it as an opinion.

And, it would have saved you quite a bit of your time if only you read my original statement instead of throwing up a fit instantaneously:

waseemalim wrote:I do not think division 2 should get awards, or at the very least not the same type of awards. A 90% win rate in Div 1 is much better than a 95% in Div 2.

I made that statement because there were talks of handing out medals. And I did not think an achievement in Div 2 deserved a medal, because there is *likely* to be people in Division 1 more deserving of the medal who did not get it because of being in the wrong division.

Obviously all this is moot because there isn't going to be a medal. I have absolutely no problem with stating something like "Dako is the greatest player in Div 2". We shouldn't extrapolate that to say "Dako is one of the top 5 players in the League". He may be, he may not be -- we can't know.

There is no ratio for converting success in one div to another, and creating a ratio is impossible. Therefore, its just better to stick with the division that's tougher. And imo, if we were to award medals (which needs to be programmed in), it should have been to the top 5 in the League, which in this case should be entirely made of Div 1 players.

We have accepted a similar principle for the clan rankings (A clans versus B Clans), so I don't see why we shouldn't adopt it for medals in the league too.

by **Knight2254** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:58 am

Why do they even have the special Olympics? They are handicapped, slower, and thus are are inferior to the real Olympics and don't deserve medals. :roll:

I think we all can agree D1 is tougher than D2. That's the whole point of having two divisions. However, to not recognize people who played well in both divisions, regardless of difficulty, would be a mistake.

by **Chuuuuck** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:14 pm

I wonder what the D2 all star team will be called?

I have an idea....

TOFU!?!?! :lol:

by **Chuuuuck** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:20 pm

As far as the discussion of D1 and D2 goes, obviously D2 deserves every medal that D1 does. If you aren't going to treat them equally then you can't/shouldn't omit people from playing in Div. 1 if they want to. If Div. 2 is going to be treated like they are lessor and get less than Div. 1, then being in Div. 2 should be optional. It should be, everyone plays in Div. 1, unless you opt out and want to play in Div. 2 because you feel like you will get killed in Div. 1. In that case, I can see not giving medals to them. But to tell someone they can't play in Div. 1 who CLEARLY DESERVES to play in Div. 1 and then tell them they can't win medals/awards because they didn't play in the upper division is a bunch of crap.

by **Qwert** on Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:20 pm

I think that its god,that next league will be reorganised,and that everybody will have equal chance to play for first place. Then will be easy to give medal for any achievement.

by **Chariot of Fire** on Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:47 am

Calm down Wase, I didn't mean to get you riled (sorry if I did). I just set out to pick holes in your argument and also query why you'd suggest Div.2 don't deserve medals. I'm fairly sure I speak for quite a few people (and without bias, as I'm not in the running for a medal personally) and have merely presented some hard facts that warrant recognition.

And, it would have saved you quite a bit of your time if only you read my original statement instead of throwing up a fit instantaneously:

I did read it mate, which is why I was careful to write "So why not only propose a different category of medal, rather than the inflammatory remark "I do not think division 2 should get awards".

I'm fairly sure had you merely proposed a distinction between the two divisions that you'd have had my support, e.g. a gold achievement award for Div.1 and a silver equivalent for Div.2.

Hope we're cool.

CoF

by **khazalid** on Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:52 am

y'all deserve chocolate medals for this. pah!

by **Gold Knight** on Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:21 pm

khazalid wrote:y'all deserve chocolate medals for this. pah!

I agree we cannot punish clans/players for what division they were in, its still a enviable task to win around 20 straight games, as i dont think i could ever do that with my dice fluctuations against any opponents. Even if it is a Gold/Silver situation like CoF presented, thats better than exiling them altogether.