[GP] [Rules] Eliminate Deferred Troops

by **Dysmal** on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:58 pm

[MOD EDIT: There are currently no foreseeable plans to eliminate deferred troops or even provide that option (see also, here and here) for reasons that are discussed in this collection of suggestions and responses, particularly darth emperor's recent posts. If you would like to see deferred troops eliminated, please feel free to post here. If you insist on creating a new suggestion, be forewarned that it will end up here eventually. Also see here for option of no deferred troops if first turn is missed.

I would also like to point out that with deferred troops, CC tries to strike a balance between overly harsh punishment of those who miss turns and creating a benefit for those who miss turns. The deferred troop system has evolved from its original incarnation in which deferred troops were allowed to be placed immediately at the beginning of the turn and used in combat. This created far more situations where it was arguable that a person could gain an advantage by missing a turn. Despite the contrary views of some, those situations are now few and far between based on my examinations (including this one) of the games in which such an advantage is alleged to have occurred. Thus, with the current deferred troops system, CC believes it has struck the proper balance between the competing objectives mentioned at the top of this paragraph.

As a side note, the deferred troop system probably won't become more generous either.

Another side note- this suggestion was especially popular when deferred troops were multiplied after a missed round. All suggestions requesting the removal of deferred troops from both systems will be merged here.

Thanks for reading. --agentcom]

by **Itrade** on Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:11 pm

Dysmal wrote:This has become a huge pet peeve for me.

What I see alot of people doing is purposely, I repeat, PURPOSELY missing the first 3 turns in a game to then come in and get triple armies and totally do an unexpected move.

Or doing the same in the middle of a game.

This option should get removed. You shouldn't get any tactical advantage for missing turns.

The element of surprise this gives is just too huge. It makes in an advantage not to play everyturn, in some cases.

I say that instead of removing this feature we a skip turn option. Then people who purposely miss turns will not hold people up, and you can tell what they're up to and act accordingly. It's a good strategy.

by **Ran Taro** on Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:16 pm

There's advantages and disadvantages to it, so it's a fair strategy. You should be aware that they are missing turns and therefore are able to be prepared.

It would be good if they could hit a skip turn button so they don't hold others up though.

by **Nobunaga** on Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:44 pm

... I'm in a Triples game with a guy who skips 2, then dumps all his armies in one place. Valid tactic, I suppose....

... Sad thing is, this baboon doesn't seem to comprehend he's on my team and has this massive army surrounded by my own single army territories! He's nowhere to move but THROUGH me.

... worrying

by **madeinchinain85** on Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:59 pm

I think it should stay, there are some times where you just can't get to a computer or have time to make a move. They are already at a disadvantage, no point in trying to cripple them anymore. Yes, I can understand how some people use it as a means to generally piss people off, but the trade off is not worth it IMO.

by **YP_Legend** on Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:38 am

Keeping in mind to the fact this sight was created with the casual gamer in mind, instead of losing re-inforcments for missed turns maybe a restriction on how many can be placed on any 1 particular country. ( unless you only got 1) Like an even dispersal rule or somthing like that.

YP_Legend
xiGames

by **qeee1** on Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:52 am

My main problem is it adds a degree of uncertainty that's impossible to calculate, I lost my last game because I was defending against a possible attack from a person who having played the first 4 rounds suddenly stopped and missed 3 turns.

by **General Mayhem** on Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:08 am

PLEASE get rid of the multiplied armies for missing turns!! These deadbeats have 24 hours!!! Its unfair and spoils the strategy development of the game.
If they miss a turn they should pay the price! Lets keep it real like the board game!!

by **SprCobra** on Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:13 am

You have to suddenly go somewhere and youd be away
your on a weekend trip

you have to have it happen to you before you can apprecate its true value

by **lackattack** on Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:16 am

I already expressed my views about this in here:
What is this SO and SO gets his Armies doubled for 2 rounds

by **Marvaddin** on Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:03 am

Hmm, how about a "skip turn" button?

by **thegrimsleeper** on Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:10 am

yeah, a Skip Turn button... I remember someone mentioned that once before, and it's STILL a good idea!!!

by **Blitzkreig** on Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:09 pm

Dude, some people don't have the ability to get to the computer every 24 hours. I know that may sound nuts but between working 40 hours a week, being a full time college student, and doing homework or studying, conquerclub, however cool it may be takes a back seat.

by **Xtra** on Wed May 03, 2006 4:25 pm

[MOD EDIT: This topic has been STICKIED for the ease of users and moderators because it is a common suggestion. There are currently no foreseeable plans to eliminate deferred troops or even provide that option (see also, here and here) for reasons that are discussed in this collection of suggestions and responses, particularly darth emperor's recent posts. If you would like to see deferred troops eliminated, please feel free to post here. If you insist on creating a new suggestion, be forewarned that it will end up here eventually. Also see here for option of no deferred troops if first turn is missed.

I would also like to point out that with deferred troops, CC tries to strike a balance between overly harsh punishment of those who miss turns and creating a benefit for those who miss turns. The deferred troop system has evolved from its original incarnation in which deferred troops were allowed to be placed immediately at the beginning of the turn and used in combat. This created far more situations where it was arguable that a person could gain an advantage by missing a turn. Despite the contrary views of some, those situations are now few and far between based on my examinations (including this one) of the games in which such an advantage is alleged to have occurred. Thus, with the current deferred troops system, CC believes it has struck the proper balance between the competing objectives mentioned at the top of this paragraph.

As a side note, the deferred troop system probably won't become more generous either.

Thanks for reading. --agentcom]

I think the double armies if you missed a turn should be taken out. I mean, think about it. It takes maybe 10 minutes to plan and execute your move, then you end your turn. And almost anyone has 10 free minutes to get everything squared away with their game.

So people that hold out not only slow the game down, but they also get more armies when they do take their turn.

I think that if you miss your turn, you lose the armies that you would have gotten if you would have taken it.

Anyone agree?

by **qeee1** on Wed May 03, 2006 4:33 pm

No... if you miss a turn you're at a disadvantage anyway, as you risk losing continent bonuses or being wiped out or whatever. I've missed turns plenty of times, it happens quite easily if you're going away for the weekend or something.

It can be used for strategic purposes... but I don't see a major problem with that. True it slows the game down, but it's rarely that useful anyway.

by **Hoff** on Wed May 03, 2006 6:11 pm

Its your fault if you miss a turn tho. You shouldnt get rewarded with armies because you missed a turn

by **thegrimsleeper** on Wed May 03, 2006 6:24 pm

Ok, that's garbage. I'm waiting for my internet to get hooked up at my new apartment. Therefore, I was not able to take a turn in any of my games this last weekend. In one game I missed 2 turns, and might have gotten taken out or gone deadbeat, but instead I got 9 armies and I was able to come back. It wasn't my fault that I couldn't take my turn, and I maintained my standing in the game because of the extra men.

by **Jota** on Wed May 03, 2006 6:26 pm

Argh. What is with this whole "rewarded with armies" thing? How is being given the armies you would have had anyway a reward? That's like saying the guy who has to get his telephone service reconnected after they shut it off is being "rewarded with phone service" for having missed a payment.

by **HighBorn** on Wed May 03, 2006 6:39 pm

this topic has been brought up b4.. lacks pretty firm keeping it the way it is..

by **Hoff** on Wed May 03, 2006 7:26 pm

Jota wrote:That's like saying the guy who has to get his telephone service reconnected after they shut it off is being "rewarded with phone service" for having missed a payment.

umm...no its not. Giving people armies that they missed previous turn only further promotes the problem of holding. If you really care that much, then you will find a way to take your turn. If you miss two turns, no matter if you had an excuse or not. Its not fair to everyone else who was patiently waiting for their turns and actually took them. You deserve to be at a disadvantage if you miss your turns, its not fair to the other people.

by **UTGreen** on Wed May 03, 2006 7:39 pm

Leaving it the way it is isn't too bad... the only problem I have is that sometimes I forget that someone else skipped a turn and don't defend myself accordingly. It certainly could be use tactically (though I've never done it) because when you put armies out you show what your plans down the road are (or may be) and you give defense time to set up... but if instead of putting down 3 armies and then 3 armies a turn later next to a country you want, you wait and put all 6 down at once, it gives you the ability to make a significant dent into an area by surprise.

My thought would be to have a penalty on the turn before of (let's say) 1/5. So we'd have a formula like this: This turns armies calculated normally + rounded to the nearest #((this turns armies)*(missed turns)*4/5)

So if you missed a turn, and this time you should get 3, you get those three, plus 3*4/5=2.4, rounds to 2 from last turn(s). So you'd get 5 instead of 6. If this time you should get 10, and you missed two turn then you get: 10 + (10*4/5*2)=26 instead of 30. Granted, there's already sometimes an inherent penalty in missing a turn, but I think adding a small army penalty would eliminate anyone from using it as a strategy without being overly punitive to people who do other things with their lives from time to time.

by **HighBorn** on Wed May 03, 2006 7:46 pm

good idea

by **thegrimsleeper** on Wed May 03, 2006 8:40 pm

Hoff wrote:Giving people armies that they missed previous turn only further promotes the problem of holding.

No it doesn't. Holding is a different tactic altogether.

If you really care that much, then you will find a way to take your turn. If you miss two turns, no matter if you had an excuse or not. Its not fair to everyone else who was patiently waiting for their turns and actually took them. You deserve to be at a disadvantage if you miss your turns, its not fair to the other people.

You're right. I should just take my 2-year-old on a bus ride across town so I can go to a house with internet and then convince its owners that they should really let me use their computer so I don't inconvenience everyone else on this website. And then I should do it again in the evening, just in case everyone was online that afternoon. And god forbid I forget to repeat that same routine the next day, or else people might have to wait a whole day for me...

Isn't leaving yourself undefended against attacks for a round or two disadvantage enough?

by **HighBorn** on Wed May 03, 2006 9:08 pm

I agree grim!!!! mine r 8 but i still feel the whole bus cross town thing...lol

by **Hoff** on Wed May 03, 2006 9:18 pm

UTGreen wrote:My thought would be to have a penalty on the turn before of (let's say) 1/5. So we'd have a formula like this: This turns armies calculated normally + rounded to the nearest #((this turns armies)*(missed turns)*4/5)

So if you missed a turn, and this time you should get 3, you get those three, plus 3*4/5=2.4, rounds to 2 from last turn(s). So you'd get 5 instead of 6. If this time you should get 10, and you missed two turn then you get: 10 + (10*4/5*2)=26 instead of 30. Granted, there's already sometimes an inherent penalty in missing a turn, but I think adding a small army penalty would eliminate anyone from using it as a strategy without being overly punitive to people who do other things with their lives from time to time.

I would be happy if we had some kind of rule like this. Even tho I think it would be better to have someone who missed a turn not to get the bonus. If you missed a turn, then too bad. It doesnt matter if you had an excuse. You still missed a turn and shouldnt get the tactical advantage by getting more armies.

If you know you are going to be away for a few days, then don't join any new games. And no, leaving yourself "undefended" isnt a big enough disadvantage. With the insane amount of deadbeats that we have most of the time it is safe to assume that if someone missed a turn, they will go dead beat. So you would just be wasting troops by attacking you instead of putting them somewhere else where you might need them more. So since most of the time the person goes deadbeat, you move your troops some where else, Then all of a sudden you come back with 2 or 3 times the troops. Thats giving you an advantage for missing turns.

We are trying to promote people to take their turns, its more in the spirit of the game, and makes for a more fun game in general.